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Author Topic: Brick Wall  (Read 186 times)
Shannie
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Posts: 52


family wedding in 1950


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Brick Wall
« on: Monday 05 October 09 14:09 UTC (UK) »
I was wondering if anyone could have a look an see if they can find anything I cant?

I can only find the family on 2 census 1861 and 1871

I have found my 4th grt grandfathers family in 1861 living at ; 1house court 3 Thurlow street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Thomas Allen - Head - Engineer
Mary - Wife - Dress maker

Children: Johanna, Thomas, Susanna, Margaret, Enoch and Jeremiah.

In 1871 I have found the family with 2 extra children Simon and Eliza, however Mary and the twins Enoch and Jeremiah are not there? Thomas is showing as married so she hasn't passed away.

any help would be greatfull

Shannie
Logged
Ackley -
Allen/ Allan -
Begley
Boyd -
Cronan/Cronin -
Cosgrove-
Dobson
Fitzgibbons -
Finigan -
Godfrey -
Grainger
Henderson -
O'Brien
Parry -
Pendred
Roach -
Smith
Tasker
Tempest
Quantrell -
Wardle
McVeath
lizdb
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Posts: 9414
Re: Brick Wall
« Reply #1 on: Monday 05 October 09 14:15 UTC (UK) »
Just to help folks with searching the 1861 is RG9 2693 107 30
And the ages are
Thomas 36
MAry 36
Johanna 15
Thomas 10
Susanna 5
Margaret 2
Enoch 1
Jeremiah 1

and they were all bn Liverpool
Logged
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Shannie
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Posts: 52


family wedding in 1950


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Re: Brick Wall
« Reply #2 on: Monday 05 October 09 14:18 UTC (UK) »
sorry, I do my tree when I can I forget all the details i need put up.

the 1871 census is  RG10; Piece: 3790; Folio: 107; Page: 36

Simon was 7
Eliza was 5

sharon
Logged
Ackley -
Allen/ Allan -
Begley
Boyd -
Cronan/Cronin -
Cosgrove-
Dobson
Fitzgibbons -
Finigan -
Godfrey -
Grainger
Henderson -
O'Brien
Parry -
Pendred
Roach -
Smith
Tasker
Tempest
Quantrell -
Wardle
McVeath
lizdb
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Posts: 9414
Re: Brick Wall
« Reply #3 on: Monday 05 October 09 14:29 UTC (UK) »
There is no birth for a Johanna or Joanna Allen/Allan/Alan etc around 1856 in Liverpool
So it looks as if -
either there was a previous marriage
they went under a different name
or
They were actually in, say, Ireland, and not Liverpool 10 yrs earlier and at time of Johana's birth
Logged
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Shannie
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 52


family wedding in 1950


WWW
Re: Brick Wall
« Reply #4 on: Monday 05 October 09 14:37 UTC (UK) »
Hiya,

They seem to appear and disappear, not sure when Thomas born 1851 was born theres one 1st and last qrt that year so may explain why I cant find them 1851 but as for her disappearance in 1871? Could be ill in a workhouse maybe? Thomas parents were born in Ireland and moved to Liverpool.

In 1881 Thomas is married and living with family he has his younger brother simon living with him and a brother in law from Ireland. Cant seem to trace which which sister he married. RG11; Piece: 3599; Folio: 29; Page: 52;

I have also found an Eliza Allen in 1881 In the St Elizabeth Insttue - Committed by order of magistrate.

What does this mean?

x

p.s I cant seem to locate any birth info for any other than Thomas Huh
Logged
Ackley -
Allen/ Allan -
Begley
Boyd -
Cronan/Cronin -
Cosgrove-
Dobson
Fitzgibbons -
Finigan -
Godfrey -
Grainger
Henderson -
O'Brien
Parry -
Pendred
Roach -
Smith
Tasker
Tempest
Quantrell -
Wardle
McVeath
CatOne
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Posts: 5126
Re: Brick Wall
« Reply #5 on: Monday 05 October 09 16:09 UTC (UK) »
Is this Johanna maybe?

Marriage -
Johannah Allen June 1869 Chorlton 8c 733
Grooms - James Earley or Patrick Scully

1881 RG11/3598 Folio 7 Page 8
47 Portland Street, Liverpool St Martin, Lancs
Patrick Scully 31 General Labourer Kings County
Johanna 28 Clare County
Margaret 2 Liverpool

Age is 7 years out though, but in 1891/1901, age is 5 years out (In 1891 she also seems to be enumerated as Susan, not Johannah)  Undecided
Logged
Dunning/Downing, Osborn/e, Astley -Cheshire/Birmingham/Middlesex
Fanthorpe/Hall/Driffill/Storm - Lincolnshire
Bower/Woodward/Bingham/Pettinger/Shaw - Nottinghamshire
Shaw, Marland - Lancashire
Broph(e)y - Queens County, Ireland
Richards - Neath Swansea
Hunt/Fox - Lincs, Waterfield/Middleton - Staffs
Hart/Harland/Askew/Scales - Yorkshire
Brereton/Vickers - Cheshire
Gleaves/Sandford/Hulse/Hulme - Wolstanton/Audley Staffs
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov
Manchester Rambler
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Re: Brick Wall
« Reply #6 on: Monday 05 October 09 17:51 UTC (UK) »
According to Lancashire BMD http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk Johanna ALLEN or HANNAN married Patrick SCULLY in Chorlton on Medlock - the alternative surnames usually mean it's a second marriage.
Logged
ANT: Nesbit, Potts      
CHS: Gosling, Hinton, Johnson, Marsland, Sorton      
LAN: Barlow, Jackson, James, Potts, Sorton
MAY: Caulfield, Griffin      
SAL/STS: Goodwin, Gregory      
SOM: Dowding, James, Jones

Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
CatOne
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Posts: 5126
Re: Brick Wall
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 06 October 09 12:34 UTC (UK) »
Or could Hannan be Mary's maiden name, if Johannah was born before Mary married Thomas?  Undecided (There seems to be a "Hannin" family living next door to them in 1861)


Simon and brother?

9H 4 Co Silvester Street, St Martin, Liverpool
Thomas Allan 30 General Labourer Liverpool
Mary 27 Liverpool
Mary A 5 Liverpool
William 3 Liverpool
Eliza 2 Liverpool
Thomas un 1 mo? Liverpool
Simon brother 17 General Labourer Liverpool
Benjamin Finigan brother in law 20 General Labourer Ireland

RG11/3599 Folio 29 Page 52


This might be Eliza's birth registration, might be worth getting to confirm Mary's maiden name anyway.....

Eliza Allen June 1867 Liverpool 8b 240

ps. theres a Mary Allen married 45 Husband a labourer born Ireland, in the Liverpool Workhouse in 1871 RG10/3786 Folio 70 Page 7
« Last Edit: Tuesday 06 October 09 17:02 UTC (UK) by CatOne » Logged
Dunning/Downing, Osborn/e, Astley -Cheshire/Birmingham/Middlesex
Fanthorpe/Hall/Driffill/Storm - Lincolnshire
Bower/Woodward/Bingham/Pettinger/Shaw - Nottinghamshire
Shaw, Marland - Lancashire
Broph(e)y - Queens County, Ireland
Richards - Neath Swansea
Hunt/Fox - Lincs, Waterfield/Middleton - Staffs
Hart/Harland/Askew/Scales - Yorkshire
Brereton/Vickers - Cheshire
Gleaves/Sandford/Hulse/Hulme - Wolstanton/Audley Staffs
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov
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