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Author Topic: When was this taken?  (Read 522 times)
brianthecow
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
When was this taken?
« on: Tuesday 06 October 09 13:18 UTC (UK) »
Hi all

From the clothes, hairstyles etc. can anyone identify approx. when this photo was taken, and the likely social status of the couple? It was printed from a glass plate. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks

brianthecow

* great_clarkes.jpg (95.47 KB, 1000x666 - viewed 231 times.)
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clarke, sutton; shifnal wellington market drayton potteries
lowe, fletcher, bradbourne; priorslee lilleshall donnington
horton; wolverhampton
betteley; shropshire and staffordshire
PrueM
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Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 06 October 09 20:52 UTC (UK) »
Hi brianthecow  Smiley

Beautiful early picture!  Cheesy
Glass plate photography was introduced in 1851, so it will date to after that - not long after, though. 
I'd put it in the mid-1850s...don't have my references to hand, so may be a few years out.
Is this a glass negative or an Ambrotype?

Prue
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) – BIGG (Kent) – BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) – BRISBANE (Fife) – DANKS (STS) – DOBSON (BRK) – FRANCIS (ESS) – GOODE (HAM) – HAYNES (Cork) – INGRAM (MDX, SOM) – LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) – MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray) – MORRISH (LND) – NANCARROW (CON) – OGILVIE (Moray, LND) – STRATHDEE (LND, Banff) - SWAN (Fife)
jim1
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Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 06 October 09 21:04 UTC (UK) »
Lovely picture,would like to see all of it in colour,just to see what the original was like.
Mid - late 1850's I would suggest,her bodice with the cape like shoulder tapering to the
waist was a fashion trend at the time.
Almost forgot to mention,there's no finery in their clothes so I would say working class.
Prue,in this her wedding ring is on her left hand meaning this is not a negative..is that correct?
jim
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Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke;Dillon;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;kane;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers;Whitworth.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Leics.Cooper;Preston
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom;Easthope
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Sawyer.
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
PrueM
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Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 06 October 09 21:23 UTC (UK) »
Depends on which way around the negative was when printed!
If it was printed with the emulsion facing upwards (the same way an ambrotype is viewed) then it would appear back-to-front.
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) – BIGG (Kent) – BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) – BRISBANE (Fife) – DANKS (STS) – DOBSON (BRK) – FRANCIS (ESS) – GOODE (HAM) – HAYNES (Cork) – INGRAM (MDX, SOM) – LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) – MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray) – MORRISH (LND) – NANCARROW (CON) – OGILVIE (Moray, LND) – STRATHDEE (LND, Banff) - SWAN (Fife)
Gadget
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Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 06 October 09 21:41 UTC (UK) »
Oh what a wonderful photo  Smiley

What length of exposure would have been needed for this?
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Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
PrueM
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Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 06 October 09 23:08 UTC (UK) »
Not sure on exposure times, Gadget - would depend a lot on the available light...I think a lot was trial and error at this stage.  Probably no more than a few seconds, though (remember this is an underexposed negative, if it's an Ambrotype/direct positive on glass.   If it is a true negative, then maybe half as long again.  I'm just guessing here!)  APparently collodion plates have an ISO of about 1, so that might give some idea!

I should have mentioned before that Ambrotypes/direct positives on glass could be mounted either way around, so if the emulsion side was put against the black background, you would get the picture the right way around.  I've seen them mounted both ways, so it's probable that this one (again, if a positive) is showing the couple the right way around.

Prue
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) – BIGG (Kent) – BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) – BRISBANE (Fife) – DANKS (STS) – DOBSON (BRK) – FRANCIS (ESS) – GOODE (HAM) – HAYNES (Cork) – INGRAM (MDX, SOM) – LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) – MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray) – MORRISH (LND) – NANCARROW (CON) – OGILVIE (Moray, LND) – STRATHDEE (LND, Banff) - SWAN (Fife)
Gadget
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Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 06 October 09 23:15 UTC (UK) »
Thanks, Prue.

I've only ever seen a few early photos in the flesh, apart from at the museum in Bradford (worth going to for anyone interested in photography):

http://www.nationalmediamuseum.org.uk/

ISO 1 would need a reasonable length of time though, I'd think  Undecided
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Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Hibee
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Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 07 October 09 08:02 UTC (UK) »
If it's in the UK, am I right in thinking that it's probably pre death of Prince Albert (1861).

Didn't the nation's women eschew bright colours, in keeping with the standard set by the Queen?

Hibee
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Midlothian: Adam(s), Meikle/Muckle
Leith: Bridges
Edinburgh: Brown
Prestonpans: Bird, Inglis
Fife: Wemyss
Orkney: Brock
Ireland: Sweeney
jim1
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Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 07 October 09 10:02 UTC (UK) »
Queen Victoria wore black for the rest of her life,some women wore
black out of respect but only for a limited period.
This is definitely pre 1861 & probably a wedding photo.Mid 1850's it
would have to be a very special occassion to have this taken.

jim
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Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke;Dillon;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;kane;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers;Whitworth.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Leics.Cooper;Preston
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom;Easthope
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Sawyer.
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
brianthecow
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Posts: 44


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 07 October 09 13:47 UTC (UK) »
Thank you so much for all this information folks. It kind of took my breath away to discover that it's from the 1850s - older than I thought, so likely to be my gg grandparents. One couple married in 1858 and the other in 1859, so this would seem to fit if it's a wedding photo, or are those dates a bit too late? I had to look up Ambrotype, but I don't know the answer; my dad has the glass plate so I'll ask him.

If anyone would like to have a go at adding some colour that would be interesting.

brianthecow
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clarke, sutton; shifnal wellington market drayton potteries
lowe, fletcher, bradbourne; priorslee lilleshall donnington
horton; wolverhampton
betteley; shropshire and staffordshire
PrueM
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Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 07 October 09 20:07 UTC (UK) »
Hi Brian  Smiley

Here's a bit of info about Ambrotypes/wet collodion positives on glass:

http://www.kamogawa-conservation.com.au/What%20Photo%20Is%20That/Ambrotype.html
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) – BIGG (Kent) – BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) – BRISBANE (Fife) – DANKS (STS) – DOBSON (BRK) – FRANCIS (ESS) – GOODE (HAM) – HAYNES (Cork) – INGRAM (MDX, SOM) – LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) – MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray) – MORRISH (LND) – NANCARROW (CON) – OGILVIE (Moray, LND) – STRATHDEE (LND, Banff) - SWAN (Fife)
jim1
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Posts: 4988


I wouldn't bother if it wasn't for the kids


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Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 07 October 09 21:15 UTC (UK) »
1858/9 is in the time frame for this.They look mid 20's so births 1830-5 I would suggest.

jim
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Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke;Dillon;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;kane;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers;Whitworth.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Leics.Cooper;Preston
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom;Easthope
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Sawyer.
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
jim1
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Posts: 4988


I wouldn't bother if it wasn't for the kids


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Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 07 October 09 22:04 UTC (UK) »
A bit of a go from me.Sorry about the garish colours but that's what they wore 1850's

jim

* dexCAYSBI7Ia.jpg (255.66 KB, 750x500 - viewed 122 times.)
« Last Edit: Thursday 08 October 09 10:20 UTC (UK) by jim1 » Logged
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke;Dillon;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;kane;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers;Whitworth.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Leics.Cooper;Preston
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom;Easthope
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Sawyer.
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
brianthecow
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 44


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 08 October 09 12:47 UTC (UK) »
Thanks for the link, PrueM, very interesting. jim1: the colour doesn't look garish to me!  Cool Thanks very much.

From what my dad tells me the plate was an Ambrotype. I've asked him to dig it out to see if there is anything else that can be gleaned from it.

The ages of the two couples when they married were (M/F) 22/20 and 21/27. I can't hazard a guess as to whether the woman looks older than the man but maybe someone else can?Huh?

brianthecow
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clarke, sutton; shifnal wellington market drayton potteries
lowe, fletcher, bradbourne; priorslee lilleshall donnington
horton; wolverhampton
betteley; shropshire and staffordshire
Gadget
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Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
Re: When was this taken?
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 08 October 09 14:47 UTC (UK) »
Hi All

I've just noticed that Jim had found the same pattern as me - Hannah's dress. It's done my eyes in Undecided

Here ya go


Gadget

* great_clarkes-smll-warm-G.jpg (315.93 KB, 678x514 - viewed 115 times.)
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Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
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