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Author Topic: Neal(e) in Kirtlington  (Read 475 times)
martingraham
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« on: Wednesday 07 October 09 15:43 UTC (UK) »
I'm looking for a number of Neal(e) 's in the village of Kirtlington.

My Ancestor is Harriott Neal b 1848 in Kirtlington - who in 1851 was living with James Neal (Head), and listed as daughter, and also living at the same address is Mary A Neal b 1848, and Sarah Neal b 1851, both daughters. Also listed is Elizabeth Neal, aged 25, listed as Niece.

I believe that Harriott may also have been known as Henrietta - as she appears in later census as Henrietta (now married to Jacob Moorman, in Kingston , in 1881). Elizabeth Rogers is also listed in 1881 living with Henrietta, and listed as Mother in Law, indicating that she re married.

I would like to trace a number of items to try and piece all of this together.

a) Marriages of Elizabeth Neal to first husband (probably Neal) and to her second husband
b) birth records of Henrietta (Harriott?) Neal(e)

If any one can help with the above I would be extremely grateful

Regards

Martin
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wozzle
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 07 October 09 16:20 UTC (UK) »
on the 1851 she is down as aged 6
so born c1845
kirklington is in the reg dist of bicester
there is this birth that might possibly be her
name; harriet neale
y.o.r. 1844
qtr; jul/aug/sept
dist; bicester
vol; 16
page; 38
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trish1120
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My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 07 October 09 16:50 UTC (UK) »
Hi Martin,
Interesting Census the 1851 Grin

1841 James is in Kirtlington with his Father and brothers.
HO107/886/8/Kirtlington ( Under NIEL)

William NEAL, 60
James, 20
John, 15
Isaac, 11

As William is 60 there would probably be other children. Elizabeth could be one of the daughters of James siblings.

As James is described as unmarried in the 1851 Census I would say the children are the illegitimate and Elizabeth is their Mother.

Birth Cert is a must Grin

Trish Smiley
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trish1120
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My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 07 October 09 17:06 UTC (UK) »
Marriage Freebmd;
Elizabeth NEALE
On same page, Robert ROGERS
December 1863, Bicester, 3a 0137

1871 Census
RG10/1442/37/31

Robert ROGERS, 60, head, mar, ag lab, Kirtlington
Elizabeth Rogers, 45, wife, mar, born Kirtlington
Winifred NEALE, 2, grand-daug, born Kirtlington
Thomas TRAFFORD, 65,lodger?, widow, carpenter, Kirtlington

Yes in 1881 she is with Harriett and husband described as Wifes Mother, unusual as normally says Mother in Law.

Trish Smiley
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Frustrated Iban
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Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 07 October 09 18:13 UTC (UK) »
From the P.R's for Kirtlington,
25 Aug 1844, NEAL, Harriet, d. Elizabeth, servant girl.
24 Aug 1851,    "    , Susannah, d. Elizabeth, servant girl.

The marriage in 1863 is for a different Elizabeth ( born 1826, Father unknown)

Cheers,
George.
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trish1120
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My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 07 October 09 21:38 UTC (UK) »
Thank you so much for that George Smiley

The 1863 marriage seems correct though as it fits with Elizabeths age and she does appear on 1881 Census under the same name Huh
Do you mean on the marriage no Father is named for Elizabeth ?
Could it still be her and she is illegitimate too? And the daughter of one of James sisters?

Cheers,
Trish Smiley
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Frustrated Iban
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Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 08 October 09 08:47 UTC (UK) »
Hi Trish,
The marriage entry reads -

19 Nov 1863. ROGERS, Robert, 52, wdr. Kirtlington, s/o Thomas Lab.
                      NEALE, X, Elizabeth, 37, sp. Kirtlington, Father unknown.

Witnesses: Elizabeth SCARSBROOK, Thomas Kirtland.

The baptism entry for the above Elizabeth reads -
7 May 1826, NEAL, Elizabeth, d/o Mary NEAL, Lab.

There is no way that the Elizabeth shown on the 1851 census as living with James NEAL could be this Elizabeth who was born 7 May 1826 d/o Mary NEAL. lab.
Sorry, that is from the P.R's.

There was a marriage 26 Oct 1805 as follows -

NEAL, John, bach.
COX, Elizabeth, sp, b.o.t.p.
Witness - George PHILLIPS, Thos. COX.

But there are no baptims registered in Kirtlington for this marriage.
??

Cheers, George.
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martingraham
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Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #7 on: Friday 09 October 09 10:03 UTC (UK) »
All - thank you for all of the help on this little puzzle...

I must get the birth certificate of Harriot to check the details out.

It would appear on the 1861 census that there is an Elizabeth Neal b1826 living with Mary Mitchel, and elizabeth is marked as relation, Daughter.

I wonder if Elizabeth, was a Mitchel originally and married a Neal ? or was unmarried to a Neal and took the surname?

If possible - could you see if there are any marriages of Elizabeth Mitchel to a Neal(e) and if there are any baptism records of an Elizabeth Mitchel

Many Thanks


Martin
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Frustrated Iban
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Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #8 on: Friday 09 October 09 12:42 UTC (UK) »
Hi Martin,
There are no apparent marriages in Kirtlington between an Elizabeth NEAL(E) and a MITCHELL.
There was a marriage between an Elizabeth MITCHELL, Wid. of Kirtlington to a Thomas COX of Blechington  30 Oct 1830 but further investigation revealed that the lady in question had been an Elizabeth GREEN prior to her marriage to a William MITCHELL of Kirtlington  19 Jan 1818 - so she was out.
There was a Baptism of an Elizabeth MITCHELL 10 May 1846 in Kirtlington.
Otherwise nothing further along any of those lines, sorry.
George.
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martingraham
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Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #9 on: Friday 09 October 09 13:18 UTC (UK) »
George - thanks for that - Shame we cant find Elizabeth.

as far as the Bap of Elizabeth (10 May 1846) -  I think is a daughter of Mary Mitchell from the 1851 census (107/piece 1729 / Folio 153 / Page Cool
To check a couple of things = could you have a look at the entry for Elizabeth, 10 May 1846 and to see who the father is noted as.
On the 1851 census there is also Alfred Mitchel, b 1845 Son of Mary
and a Hannah Mitchel, b 1848, daughter of Mary

Could you check these bap records for me

Regards and Thanks

Martin
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jamajo
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Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #10 on: Friday 09 October 09 13:53 UTC (UK) »
Hi Martin,

              What about this marriage... from Oxfordshire Marriage Index

16 Oct 1804 William Mitchell, Enstone to Mary Neal at Sandford St Mart

    Sue Smiley
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martingraham
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Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #11 on: Friday 09 October 09 14:08 UTC (UK) »
Thanks for that Sue

My Mary was born in 1811 so I think the marriage in 1804 doesnt fit

Thanks any way..
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trish1120
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My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #12 on: Friday 09 October 09 15:31 UTC (UK) »
Maybe it is only me but I am getting completely confused here.

Ok,
Harriett is your direct Ancestor?
She married Jacob Moorman and you have Marriage cert with no Father named?


Trish Smiley
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DebbieG
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Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #13 on: Friday 09 October 09 16:03 UTC (UK) »
Hi

I have just had another look at that 1851 census

James and co are listed next door (or possibly the same house) as Mary Mitchell who is already widowed by then,  I would say the emumerator has written the relationships wrongly

So I would say that Mary Mitchel was originaly Mary Neal and is James's sister,  she has an illegitimate daughter Elizabeth in 1826,  sometime between 1826 and 1846 (birth of son Alfred Mitchel) she marries Mr Mitchel  the 3 younger children in James's household are not in fact his daughters but the children of his neice Elizabeth (b 1826) who marries Robert Rogers in 1863.

Will try and find the Mitchell is 1841

DebbieG
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trish1120
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My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
Re: Neal(e) in Kirtlington
« Reply #14 on: Friday 09 October 09 16:23 UTC (UK) »
Thank you DebbieG,

As I dont have access to Parish Records I find it difficult to disagree with people.

I knew there was a Rogers/Neal connection as Winifred aged 2 is with the Rogers in Census.
Plus my scenario I posted earlier before the Mitchell connection came in

I am glad I am not crazy and was on right track Grin

Cheers,
Trish
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