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Topic: Insignia ID, Please. British, WW2. (Read 237 times)
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Steve G
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 464
My Maternal Great Gran ~ Polly Burge
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It's the lower one. The started letters? I know the upper one is the 'Black Cat' of the 56th London. I just want to know what the letters on the scooped, lower tab might signify.
This is a close crop of a portrait photo, probably taken in Italy or France. It's my Dad. I'm withholding the whole shot because, I assure ye, it shows nothing more what so ever of value. And I don't want his photo turning up on A.com, sneaked by some Name Collector and given the wrong relatives. I'm sure ye'll understand 
Please try to focus ye mind on " NS..... ". He may have been seconded from the 56th? It may be some ~ I don't know ~ within the 56th? It's the meaning of those letters I'm after.
I'd be grateful if someone could at least tell me the proper term for that lower form of insignia, so I can better focus my endless Google searching. 'Cap Badge' is self explanatory. But, what was this thing, in this position, called?
It's made of material. It bares characters. The characters are scooped, rather than bowed. It's on his epaulette, not his shoulder. To me ~ a complete ignoramus in such matters! ~ it suggests a job title within the 56th London's.
I've tried this on two, specialist, forums. Nuff'n!
Go ahead. Make my day. Please
Steve.
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GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & Pre 1800 London).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')
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km1971
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2732
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Steve
Could it say INSTRUCTOR?
Ken
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Steve G
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 464
My Maternal Great Gran ~ Polly Burge
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 Scrimnet; Ye have made my day!!!
Look! Scroll down to lot. 94. Here.
See? You ~ at last! ~ told me and showed me these Shoulder Titles. That proved to me that regimental names Did appear on them. And that the name could be in scooped form.
Then, I wanted to see a North Staff's one. Doesn't exist on the net right now, it seems. And, every reference I found said " North Staff .... ". Be it 's, 'ordshire, what ever.
But, there it is. As close as we'll get. That auctioneer lists what he's looking at. He's listed " North Staff'...". But that says " N STAFFORD ". And, what ever NORBAT is or isn't, I'm willing to believe that that's what it says on my Dads shoulder title after all
I know it shouldn't. I know he / they had no right to be in Italy or France at that time, ect. etc. But, 'He was there' and, for all the book punching in the world, I appear to have a photograph which shows he's wearing the North Staffs shoulder title. No one else can tell me another possible line up of letters. And I most certainly can't find one.
I reckon you get the cigar! Thank you!
Regards his Service Records? Sent for! Only, as explained last night, else where; God only knows when they'll turn up. And I've just got my hands on that photo, after angling after it for a twelve month. I mean; Could you have just sat on ye hands, wondering? For over fifty years I never even knew he was in WW2!  Now, obviously, I'm simply gagging to find out what he was up to
Thanks again. I'll be off to check my post box presently. Who knows ....?
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GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & Pre 1800 London).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')
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Steve G
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 464
My Maternal Great Gran ~ Polly Burge
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What was his rank on the pic and his calling/trade?
Absolutely no idea. Photo shows only what I've posted. No other visual clues what so ever.
Regards his 'calling or trade'? At that time? I'd say 'Being in the army'! Seriously. I have another photo here. He's in very plain and unmarked battle dress. There is a very blurry and tiny glimpse of some badge on jis forage cap. But he honestly looks about fifteen years old!
So, I'm guessing, he might have joined some cadet force or something, then joined up for the Regulars once he was old enough? In fact, now I mention it; My Mum told me he " Ran away and joined the army ", due to a domestic situation. Frankly; I'd always been more distracted by my understanding of that situation. Thus I never stopped to think about the whens and hows 
Here ye go:
If ye DL it and blow it up as much as ye can, I think ye might see why I think of it as the " Butterfly and Dove " badge. Because there's some symmetrical design at the bottom, rather like open butterflies wings. Then, above that, though even less distinct, is something which reminds me of a classical dove image, flying left to right.
Unfortunately, I'm more Family Historian than Military Historian. So, whilst my WW2 library is constantly creeping up, I haven't quite reached the level of buying dedicated books of military insignia. Also, I'd rather doubt my local library would stock anything of that sort either. I'm not exactly in Dublin, out here
I'd be curious as to whether ye can make anything of that (earlier) badge though. Quite happy to PM ye the full photo's too, if ye reckon seeing them might help in any way
I'm enjoying this now. It's more fun now I'm able to relax about it
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GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & Pre 1800 London).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')
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Steve G
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 464
My Maternal Great Gran ~ Polly Burge
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Good god! I do believe ye could very well indeed be dead right too!
I've just blown up the shot again. I said a symmetrical design, like a butterfly? Never even entered my head that the Stafford Knot presents exactly that!
In fact ~ now ye have the complete shots yeself (way cool e mail addy! ) look at the right hand side? There is a definite and just visible roundness to that 'wing'!
I'm now, near as damnit, certain that my Dad joined up with the North Staffs, probably from the very start, and was likely serving with them ..... quite possibly even from the very outbreak of the war? Who knows? (Well; we will, once those SR's get here!)
If so, it's quite feasible that he was at Anzio? Blimey! And there's my sister, wondering if he ever fired a shot in anger?! From the hip, in a blind rage of fury sounds more like it
Be great if the records show he was there. Simply because there's likely to be so much written about it. Be quite the experience to be able to read about a major battle, knowing that 'but for the grace of god' a stray round might have mean't I'd never have been born to read it.
Oh well. I'll not let myself get too carried away just yet. We're half way there, it seems. But those infernal SR's will be the key to what ever's to be. Three months? Must be getting close now
Can't thank you enough for ye brilliant work! Thank You!
Steve.
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GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & Pre 1800 London).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')
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NStaffsSCJ_274red.JPG
