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Author Topic: Sutherlands  (Read 477 times)
jamesmatthews45
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Posts: 16


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Sutherlands
« on: Tuesday 13 October 09 19:57 UTC (UK) »
Back onto the case as I seem to be drawing a blank on the Robert McGregor and Mary Sutherland.

All this information has come from a Great Aunt who unfortunately was more interested in the McGregor side of the family.  From her notes I have put together the following however, I can’t find a lot of the documentation. 

However, I have put together the following and hope I can get more from people on the site.  Forgive me I am a beginner.

Father – John Sutherland from Wick
Mother Janet Cormack again I think form Wick

Son William Sutherland b 12/11/1785       )
                ) Yes Twins
Daughter Esther Sutherland b12/11/1778  )

I think Esther Married a John Sutherland.
   
My Aunt left notes stating that Esther died in 2nd April 1855 and is buried at Grahd ? Berriedale she also wrote Dunbeath, Latheron.

They possibly had the following children:
1.   Alexander 1832
2.   George 1834
3.   Ann 1838
4.   Janet 1840
5.   James (Dec)
6.   Hugh 1844
7.   Robert 1846
8.   William 1848
9.   William (Dec)
All these notes are written as is:
(F) William Sutherland – farmer
(M) Ann Sutherland
(H) or (M) John Sutherland – Farmer

Can anyone help?
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McGregor, Sutherland
MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 9062
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 20:18 UTC (UK) »
Hi James

By the look of what you have posted here, in the main, the notes you have inherited come from Esther Sutherland's 1855 death cert. 1855 was the first year of official registration in Scotland. For one year only, the entries ran over two pages of the register and included a wealth of additional info. By 1856, the entries has been cut down to one page.

So for deaths, they would include:

- spouse's details
- where the person had been born and how long they had lived at place where they died
- parents' details
- full list of children, inc. year of birth and year of any deaths
- details of where they were buried.

As you can see, this pretty much fits with what you have here.

The only bit I am not getting are the parent details for Esther at the beginning of your post as the names differ what looks to have been included on the cert.

The certificate is availble to view and download on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Monica  Smiley
Logged
MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 9062
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 20:26 UTC (UK) »
Just realised also that the Esther showing as born in 1778 cannot be the same Esther having all those children up to late 1830s, it would be a fair age to be still having babies  Roll Eyes

You need to work on the details as showing on her death cert. The death cert will also include her age at death which will help you when looking for her birth and family.

Census info is a good way to go forward. Caithness is very well covered  by http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl  You need to make sure you click the right tab for census year at the top.

Monica
Logged
MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
jamesmatthews45
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 16


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 20:57 UTC (UK) »
Hi Monica,

All the details I have are on the McGregor’s is typed.  The information on the Sutherlands is hand written and I don’t know what is what I am only assuming is correct my Aunt put this together years ago.

The notes on the children might not be hers (Esther)?  I was on SP but could not find her death cert only the birth cert for Esther and William.

Perhaps I am doing things wrong.  I have only just started this but love it – perhaps it is becoming a bit of an obsession lol

Any help you or any of the members is greatly appreciated.

Jim
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McGregor, Sutherland
jamesmatthews45
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 16


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 21:00 UTC (UK) »
Hi again,

Forgot to mention as you pointed out on my Aunt's notes she has put the age of death as 72

Jim
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McGregor, Sutherland
MonicaLesl
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Posts: 9062
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 21:14 UTC (UK) »
I think we are missing a generation down from Esther and it may well be Esther and John Sutherland's son or daughter who died in 1855. Without knowing all their children, it is hard to guess at this stage.

Someone has a tree on Ancestry for John and Esther. They have included the OPR image of Esther's birth, clearly showing as the twin of William to John S and Janet Cormack.

However, on this tree, they only show one daughter, Jessie who married a James McGregor (is this any connection with your McGregors?). Their  list of children don't match what you have from your G Aunt, so not Jessie's family.

Can I ask, which line up are you following? Might be a better way to work back given we are potentially missing a bit in the middle on your notes that you have inherited Smiley

Monica
Logged
MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
jamesmatthews45
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 16


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 21:20 UTC (UK) »
think I might now know where I have gone wrong.  I have put the children down as 18... where as as  I have now got the record of death it the numbers at the side of the children are their age.

now that would make sence.

regards Jim
Logged
McGregor, Sutherland
MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 9062
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 21:29 UTC (UK) »
A few more trees. Pulling together the children they show to John and Eshter (assuming no other couple with those names):

Alexander b. 1810 m. Catherine Henderson - their children showing on Ancestry don't match your list
Donald b. 1812
Catherine b. 1816
Jessie b. 1818 m James McGregor - their children showing on Ancestry don't match your list
Isabella b. 1818

Monica
Logged
MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
jamesmatthews45
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 16


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 21:30 UTC (UK) »
Is the OPR from Brown/matthews if so then it is my daughter who started this.  I will look further into this in the morning as yes this is the correct McGregors for me.

Jim
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McGregor, Sutherland
MonicaLesl
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Posts: 9062
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 21:35 UTC (UK) »
Jim, it is your family tree where the OPR image shows. There are another three trees showing for what looks like the same line. The one for son Alexander and Catherine Henderson looks the most comprehensive apart from yours.

Monica
Logged
MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
jamesmatthews45
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 16


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 21:52 UTC (UK) »
Hi Monica,

This is all great for me and thank you so much for you help and interest.  I will have to have a look in the morning as I have lost it a bit.  You will have to forgive me as I have only just got into this

regards Jim
Logged
McGregor, Sutherland
MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 9062
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 21:58 UTC (UK) »
Jim

Take a break...brain start to go round in circles after a while  Grin I'll add anything I find and you can have a look through when you can  Smiley

Monica
Logged
MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 9062
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 22:09 UTC (UK) »
From 1851, this looks like Esther and John, and daughter Jessie (Janet) and James McGregor:

John Sutherland 69, tailor, b. Parish of Berriedale, Caithness
Esther Sutherland 69, b. Parish of Latheron, Caithness
Anne Sutherland 25, daughter, hemp spinner, b. Parish of Berriedale, Caithness

Also at the same addresss of Knockally (on the same page) are your McGregors:

James McGregor 38, Agricultural Labourer, b. Parish of Latheron, Caithness
Janet McGregor 29, b. Parish of Berriedale, Caithness, as are all the children...
Jane McGregor 13
Isabel McGregor 12
Esther McGregor 9
Charles McGregor 6
Anne McGregor 3
Johanna McGregor 2

Monica
Logged
MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 9062
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 22:16 UTC (UK) »
There is a death in 1855 showing on SP for an Esther Sutherland, with a birth year of 1783, in Latheron. I wonder if this is the one found by your G Aunty?

I found this:

Esther SUTHERLAND(2139) was born in 1783. She died on 2 Apr 1855. Parents: William SUTHERLAND  and Ann SUTHERLAND.

She was married to John SUTHERLAND in 1802 in Latheron.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kaob/d120.htm#P3005

Jim, might be worthwhile you looking at the original image for this death. As mentioned earlier, it will (should!) show her children's names and birth years or ages at the point of this Esther's death. This will let you confirm whether it is the right line. If the children match what you know about them, then it may be that you have the wrong parents in John S and Janet Cormack perhaps?

Also been thinking the list of children you show in your post. I think that the dates are not actual dates but should be ages for Esther's children from her death cert (if you take of the 18 from the numbers you show Grin)

See http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=robbain&id=I1963

Stage at a time though.....

Monica
Logged
MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 9062
Re: Sutherlands
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 22:46 UTC (UK) »
Possible descendents for you to follow up with:

A possible further daughter: The parents of Margaret Sutherland [b] 1807 Latheron were John Sutherland and Esther Sutherland http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCT-CAITHNESS/2008-02/1204060094

Regarding son Alexander: My G G grandfather, Alexander Sutherland .......On his death certificate his age was 71, His parents were John and Esther Sutherland. www.net-wizards.com/forum/cgi-bin/main.cgi?forum_id=10775&add_message=5623&page=2

Monica
Logged
MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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