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Topic: Question about Tithe maps (Read 443 times)
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maryp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
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Found this great site with the tithe maps for 1836-51 .. and you can match up with modern map.
http://maps.cheshire.gov.uk/tithemaps/
My question is concerning the "Occupier(s)'.. might someone lease the property .. but then re-rent it out? So that "Occupier(s)" may not actually be the people living at the property?
The reason that I ask is that I know for sure that certain relatives were living in specific towns.. I can even pinpoint the parcel on the maps.. but it doesn't list my relatives as the occupiers.
As a matter of fact.. I've looked up multiple names.. and none of them show up in the index.
So I'm assuming that they rented from the person who was "leasing" the land from the owner?
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Ratcliffe, Houghton, Pilling, Johnson, Salisbury, Yarwood : Cheshire and Lancashire
Rundle, Clark, Lobb, White, Brice?, Mann : Cornwall
Wardell; Harrison, Richardson, West: Lincolnshire
Kieft, Morgan, Bevan, Hullin Cock: Gower, GLA, Wales
Stanford, Carroll, Wrynn, MacGovern : Leitrim, IRE
Stanford, Mason ; Meagher/Mahar, Bannon, Connolly: Ireland
Keen: England and New Haven, CT
...and many more!
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garstonite
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 933
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hiya Mary.....all the Tithe Survey results that I have trawled all have ...on the left hand side is named who is living there and on the right hand side is the land owner....eg,,
Moor Farm .....J Smith......110 acres................F. Jones.....
but I have to say I have only trawled for my family so I might not be 100% right...this is just what I have observed.....allan
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oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire...... sacht,helgoland .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis.. jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford
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JDGen
Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2335
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Hi maryp,
I'm not sure that there were any hard and fast rules about this and like Allan can only go on what I've found for my own family.
For one of my lines I have Allen Beckett shown as joint owner with Sir Arthur Aston of land in Sutton near Frodsham. He was the holder of a 3 life lease for the land so he didn't actually own it. The farmhouse itself is shown as wholly owned by Sir Arthur Aston with Allen Beckett as the occupier. So ownership or tenancy isn't 100% clear in this example.
It might be worth an email to the records office to ask if there were any guidelines at the time that the maps were compiled.
Jean
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCHS: Barber(Tabley) Barlow(Antrobus) Blackshaw(Lymm, Mobberley) Blease/Done/Moore(G Bud) Owen(Netherton, Tabley) Spragg/Witter(Goostrey) Youd(Frodsham) Pennell Bankes Birchall Beckett DBY: Higginbottom(Mellor) HRT: Gurney HRT/BED/ESS: Verney (Markyate St) LAN: Davenport(Bolton) Schofield/Gurney(Oldham) Lord(Heap) Quinn(Manchester) Sutcliffe(Rossendale) NTH: Tubb/Johnson(Hellidon)Brown(Kettering) YKS: Scott(Clapham) |
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maryp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
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Thanks.. there is really only one property in Antrobus that I can really pinpoint where my family lived..but on the tithe map they list the actual owner.. and then another name for the "occupant" and neither is my family. I had a lot of families in that area.. I did "searches" for the surnames..and my families don't show up in any towns.. not the ones that I KNOW they lived in.. nor any others. Very puzzling.
The Ratcliffe family that I thought I should be able to find.. weren't servants or farm laborers..so it's not like they lived on someone's farm, or as a servant in their home. He was a shoe maker.
Knowing much more about the leases that my family owned in Cornwall where my family held the leases on a great deal of property..but didn't live on or work it all....
I'm wondering if the same thing happened here. someone had leases on a lot of the property in the area (some names are repeated a lot for the area I searched) ..and then rented out the homes on the property.. and the tithe map shows the "real owner".. and the individual who "leased it" as the occupier when actually there is also a 'sub leasers" so to speak.
It's either that..or they didn't exist!! hahaha
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Ratcliffe, Houghton, Pilling, Johnson, Salisbury, Yarwood : Cheshire and Lancashire
Rundle, Clark, Lobb, White, Brice?, Mann : Cornwall
Wardell; Harrison, Richardson, West: Lincolnshire
Kieft, Morgan, Bevan, Hullin Cock: Gower, GLA, Wales
Stanford, Carroll, Wrynn, MacGovern : Leitrim, IRE
Stanford, Mason ; Meagher/Mahar, Bannon, Connolly: Ireland
Keen: England and New Haven, CT
...and many more!
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selwynfroggitt
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I can't recall the detail but a few years back I went to Chester Archives and looked at some Tithe Maps for Helsby and Elton...
When I requested the maps I was asked if I wanted ( can't recall the name ) I replied that I didn't know what she meant but I did want to look at the Maps... she again asked the same question so I just said Yes
What the lady was mentioning was a seperate document and this turned out to be a list of names etc and explanations that I would not have known by just looking at the Tithe Map
.
Still can't recall what it's name was but it was essential
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selwynfroggitt
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Andrea
That is probably the word as I would still ask what it was if asked if I wanted it.
Good of the lady at the Archives to mention it otherwise I woul;d have learned nothing
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Pat13
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 66
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I had a similar problem Maryp. According to the tithe map the property I was interested in had a female tenant but checking it out on the 1841 census (which should have been around the same time as the tithe map) there is a single man in residence. I, too, wondered if the tenant could sub-let the property out.
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