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Topic: Help understanding medal cards please COMPLETED - THANKS (Read 245 times)
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Luzzu
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 552
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Hi,
I have found a medal card for my 2 x gt uncle, James Henry Buck, who was killed in action in India in 1916. He was in the Hampshire Reg 3854. The medal card reads:-
Victory 9/1/103B4 456
British do - do
What are these medals for?
I have been looking for medal cards for my gt grandad, Robert William Buck, who according to his marriage certificate was a bandsman in the 2nd Kings Royal Rifles but there are four possible medal cards:-
Royal Field Artillery
Royal West Surrey Reg Labour Corps
Northumberland Fusiliers
Northamptonshire Reg
Which one do you think would be the right one?
Luzzu
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« Last Edit: Thursday 05 November 09 21:21 UTC (UK) by Luzzu »
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Buck, Staffs & Hants; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh/Hague, Manchester & Todmorden; Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Yorkshire; Shackleton, Burnley, Yorkshire & Australia;
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scrimnet
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4725
No plan ever survives first contact...
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Hi Scrimnet, Thanks. Had another look at the medal card and where it says "theatre of war first served in" and "date of entry therein" it is empty. On the Ancestry record "Soldiers who died in the Great War" it says for type of casualty - died and theatre of war British Expeditionary Force. How do you know from having a grave at Karachi that he died of a disease or illness? Is that because there was no war in that bit of India? Sorry but you must be used to dealing with people with very little military knowledge  . Luzzu
Some cards have int missing, or even plain wrong, as does the CWGC roll...It is not unknown!
If he has BEF, that would mean France and Flanders.
As for your chap in India...Although it was a World War, there was no fighting against the Central Powers there. Unlike WW2 when India was a staging post for Burma.
As today, there were some minor actions against the "Wily Wazirs"
but due to the climate and the various nasties floating about, I would suggest illness or disease.
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One more charge and then be dumb,
When the forts of Folly fall,
May the victors when they come
Find my body near the wall.
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millymcb
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1326
Three Brothers Knight out on the road...almost!
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Hi all..
Just to clarify - isn't it James' father Tom Buck who is buried in Kharachi? (according to CWGC entry)
Which means that James Henry would have been serving in France/Flanders and his name appears in the Delhi War Memorial - which if you read the information on CWGC ...".. also acts as a national memorial to all the 70,000 soldiers of undivided India who served and died in every main theatre of operations except Italy during the First World War, the majority of whom are commemorated by name outside the confines of India".
Presumably he was commemorated here because of his family connections to India?
Milly 
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McBride (Monaghan & Manchester), Derbyshire (Bollington,Cheshire), Knight (Newcastle,Staffs), Smith (Chorley, Lancashire & Ireland), Tipladay (Manchester & Yorkshire) ,Steadman (Madeley,Shropshire), Steele (Manchester & Glasgow), Parkinson (Wigan, Lancashire), Lovatt, Cornes & Turner (Staffordshire) Stott (Oldham, Lancs). All ended up in Ardwick, Manchester - in Cotton Mills, Iron Works, or running pubs and corner shops. Census informatio is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.g |
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Luzzu
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 552
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Hi,
Yes, Tom Buck (1863-1903) is buried at the Karachi Cemetery A.D.N.25 - he was sergeant in the 60th rilfles and I have just noticed that on his son, Robert William's 1910 marriage certificate it says Tom Buck (deceased) colour sergeant 2nd Kings Royal Rifles.
His other son, James Henry died age 24 on 13 July 1916 and is remembered with honour at Delhi Memorial (India Gate). He was 3854 Hampshire Reg.
So is it likely that Tom, the father, died of illness or disease because he is buried at Karachi and that James Henry never went to India but died in France so would he then have been killed in action? And the Delhi Memorial (India Gate) is a memorial because of family connections.
Luzzu
PS Which war was Tom Buck in then as he died before WW1?
PPS I think I should do a link to my other post. I posted the medal card query separately to avoid it getting too complicated but I think I have caused the complication myself by doing so. Sorry  .
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=413679.new
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Buck, Staffs & Hants; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh/Hague, Manchester & Todmorden; Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Yorkshire; Shackleton, Burnley, Yorkshire & Australia;
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km1971
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2742
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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According to the CWGC James served with the 4th Battalion of the Hampshire Regiment. They served in Mesopotamia via India - http://www.1914-1918.net/hants.htm
As he was not awarded a Star he should have been awarded the TF (War) Medal . The fact this is not mentioned on his medal card probably means he enlisted after 30th September 1914 - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp. But you should ask on the Great War Forum for a Hampshire expert to tell you when 3854 was issued.
Ken
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forester
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1909
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Hello Luzzu,
According to SDGW, James Henry Buck, born Gibralta, enlisted Winchester, died in India.
The fact that it says "died", rather than killed in action or died of wounds, normally implies of sickness or disease.
As the 1/4 were in Mesopotamia at the time of his death, I would suggest that he had been invalided out. Was there still family in India at the time?
To have been awarded the British War & Victory Medals he must have served in Mespot.
Phil
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Luzzu
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 552
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Hi everyone,
I really do appreciate all your help and guidance.
Re James Henry Buck (1892-1916) - so he definitely served and died in India probably of sickness or disease.
I don't think there was family still in India. His father had already died there in 1903 and his mother returned to Hampshire and remarried. His grandfather had died in India too. Some of his mother's siblings may have still been in India but I can't be sure.
What is the SDGW please?
I will do a new post on the WW1 board to see why he wasn't awarded the TF (War) medal. Thanks for the link to "The Long Long Trail" website. I can learn a lot from there.
A few posts ago Scrimnet mentioned that British Expeditionary Force suggested France and Flanders. Is this still a possibility that my man was there too or is it more likely to be a transcription error on the part of Ancestry which is where I got the information.
Moving on to his brother, Robert William Buck (1886-1950), as I have a strong feeling he continued in the Army after WW1, I understand the his service record will probably still be with the MOD so I will apply to them via the veterans website.
That just leaves their father, Tom Buck (1863-1903) who was buried in Karachi. How do I go about finding out what happened to him. Should I start a new post?
Luzzu
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Buck, Staffs & Hants; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh/Hague, Manchester & Todmorden; Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Yorkshire; Shackleton, Burnley, Yorkshire & Australia;
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forester
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1909
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Hello Luzzu,
SDGW = Soldiers Died in the Great War
But not the A***y one. It has errors to say the least. 
Phil
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