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Author Topic: Jones in Rhymney  (Read 416 times)
HistorySeeker
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 130
Jones in Rhymney
« on: Tuesday 20 October 09 20:40 UTC (UK) »
Hi there,
I have a copy of the parish register which shows the baptism of my ancestor Thomas Jones in March 1850.

His parents are David and Elizabeth Jones of Tredegar Row in Rhymney.

I have some information that suggests he has siblings Elizabeth, William and perhaps David also.
However I cannot find them on the census in 1851 or 1861.

Can anyone help?

Thanks  Smiley
Logged
Monmouthshire: Price, Williams, Jones, Roberts
Montgomery: Haycock, Humphreys
Herefordshire: Tunley, Meredith, Monnington
Pembrokeshire: Roberts
Lancashire:Unger, Riley, Dawn, Roberts, Flockhart, Abraham
Somerset: Dawn, Rogers
Worcestershire: Price, Saint

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
heywood
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 8842
Re: Jones in Rhymney
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 20 October 09 21:30 UTC (UK) »
Hello,

where is Thomas in later censuses please?

Also are the siblings older or younger?

heywood
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
heywood
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 8842
Re: Jones in Rhymney
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 20 October 09 21:45 UTC (UK) »
Possibility from one in 1871

1861 RG9; Piece: 4001; Folio: 56; Page: 13

15 Pond Row Rumney

Elizabeth Jones head widow 47yrs b Montgomery Llanidloes
John Jones son 22yrs Ironstone Miner b Rumney
Jane Jones daur 20 yrs Stocking Coal  b -do-
William Jones son 16 yrs Ironstone miner  b -do-
Elizabeth Jones daur 13 yrs b -do-
Thomas Jones son 9 yrs b -do-
William Harris lodger 42 yrs coal miner Glamorgan Merthyr Tydfil
John Riley lodger 30 yrs ironstone miner Monmouth Rumney

The family are at
1851 HO107; Piece: 2448; Folio: 431; Page: 8 - with David

but there is no Thomas - he is 9 yrs above so it can't be him if you have his baptism record  Undecided
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
HistorySeeker
RootsChat Member
***
Posts: 130
Re: Jones in Rhymney
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 21 October 09 13:52 UTC (UK) »
Hi Heywood,
Thanks for the information - the mystery deepens!
At first glance it seems to be the correct family - I'll explain, on Thomas' marriage certificate 2 of the witnesses are William Jones and  Elizabeth Pugh, who I suspected was a sister, and yes, she is.

Or at any rate an Elizabeth Jones (born 1847ish) married David Pugh and they appear on the 1881 census in Gelligaer (don't have details in front of me to confirm the exact reference sorry) with Elizabeth Jones, widow and Mother-in-law of David Pugh, who is born ca 1810 in North Wales.  These all tie in with the references you have given.

On Thomas' marriage certificate of 14.7.1873 he is aged 22, which doesn't match the baptism record either, and might account for Thomas' abscence on the 1851 census (ie yet to be born)?

All I have is a photocopy of the Church list for the year 1850, so now I'm wondering whether I have the correct record (must be plenty of Thomases born to a David and Elizabeth Jones in Rhymney at that time).

I am now going to check the 1871 census.
Thanks for your help

Helen
Smiley
Logged
Monmouthshire: Price, Williams, Jones, Roberts
Montgomery: Haycock, Humphreys
Herefordshire: Tunley, Meredith, Monnington
Pembrokeshire: Roberts
Lancashire:Unger, Riley, Dawn, Roberts, Flockhart, Abraham
Somerset: Dawn, Rogers
Worcestershire: Price, Saint

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
heywood
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 8842
Re: Jones in Rhymney
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 21 October 09 14:10 UTC (UK) »
Hi Helen,

I thought it did look promising. The only other thing I could think of was that perhaps there were two Thomases and the first one died, so the next was named after him.
The trouble is there are far too many Thomas Jones to try to get a birth certificate.
The age on marriage would fit with being born pre July 1851.

The 1851 address is also Ponds Row but I have checked 1851 census and can't find any other David and Elizabeth Jones who may be the ones.
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
HistorySeeker
RootsChat Member
***
Posts: 130
Re: Jones in Rhymney
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 21 October 09 14:42 UTC (UK) »
Hi again,

Re: there possibly being 2 Thomases - it is odd, because that is exactly the situation with the person Thomas marries.  Again I have 2 baptism records (one in 1853 and one in 1854) with the same exact details and sadly, once again, a very common surname, Roberts! Roll Eyes

I did find Elizabeth Jones and family in 1871, just with John and Thomas though, in Pontlottyn.  Thomas is 19 this time, so at least that is consistent.  He probably was born in about May or June 1851, i.e. after the census date but before 14th July.

Smiley
Logged
Monmouthshire: Price, Williams, Jones, Roberts
Montgomery: Haycock, Humphreys
Herefordshire: Tunley, Meredith, Monnington
Pembrokeshire: Roberts
Lancashire:Unger, Riley, Dawn, Roberts, Flockhart, Abraham
Somerset: Dawn, Rogers
Worcestershire: Price, Saint

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
HistorySeeker
RootsChat Member
***
Posts: 130
Re: Jones in Rhymney
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 21 October 09 14:57 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: heywood on Tuesday 20 October 09 21:45 UTC (UK)
The family are at
1851 HO107; Piece: 2448; Folio: 431; Page: 8 - with David


Can I ask, Heywood, for the details of the 1851, especially the birth places of David and Elizabeth?
Thanks
 Smiley
Logged
Monmouthshire: Price, Williams, Jones, Roberts
Montgomery: Haycock, Humphreys
Herefordshire: Tunley, Meredith, Monnington
Pembrokeshire: Roberts
Lancashire:Unger, Riley, Dawn, Roberts, Flockhart, Abraham
Somerset: Dawn, Rogers
Worcestershire: Price, Saint

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
heywood
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 8842
Re: Jones in Rhymney
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 21 October 09 21:30 UTC (UK) »
Hi sorry- I thought you had access

1851  HO107; Piece: 2448; Folio: 431; Page: 8

Pond Row

David Jones head married 39 yrs Forge Labourer b Cardiganshire Spalty
Elizabeth Jones wife 39 yrs    -do-'s wife b Montgomeryshire Llanshen
John Jones son 12 yrs Coal Miner
Jane Jones daur 9 yrs
William Jones son 6 yrs
Elizabeth Jones daur 4 yrs
Lewis Williams lodger unmarried 79 yrs Pauper b Monmouthshire Abertikey Ebbertale

children born Rhymney

I have put place names in italics because I can't read them and that is the transcription which I also thing may be wrong e.g. Lewis Williams pob looks to be Abertilelry, Ebbw Vale from this spelling but I can't make it out.   Undecided
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
heywood
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 8842
Re: Jones in Rhymney
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 21 October 09 21:42 UTC (UK) »
Here they are in 1841 (I think)  -not very informative

1841 HO107; Piece 750; Book: 13;  Folio: 15; Page: 21

David Jones 20 yrs Collier
Elizabeth 20 yrs
John 1 yr

all born in county  Huh  Roll Eyes

The street/place is just dittoed for everyone but I think it is Queens Square or Lucar Square perhaps- can't really read it sorry!
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
HistorySeeker
RootsChat Member
***
Posts: 130
Re: Jones in Rhymney
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 22 October 09 16:52 UTC (UK) »
Thanks Heywood for the details  Smiley

Yes, I do have access to search (which takes ages obviously with Jones), but for some reason I cannot access the information using the direct reference info (via piece/folio/page numbers)  Huh

I've come across plenty of other ancestors who were apparently born "in county" on the 1841 census when all other confirmed evidence (eg birth certificates) states that they clearly were not!

I wonder where on earth "Spalty" can be in Cardiganshire?  I guess Llanshen could be Llanidloes, though...plenty more to search on, I think.
Thanks again
Helen
Smiley
Logged
Monmouthshire: Price, Williams, Jones, Roberts
Montgomery: Haycock, Humphreys
Herefordshire: Tunley, Meredith, Monnington
Pembrokeshire: Roberts
Lancashire:Unger, Riley, Dawn, Roberts, Flockhart, Abraham
Somerset: Dawn, Rogers
Worcestershire: Price, Saint

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
HistorySeeker
RootsChat Member
***
Posts: 130
Re: Jones in Rhymney
« Reply #10 on: Friday 13 November 09 21:04 UTC (UK) »
Hi,
I have just found another possible Thomas Jones on 1851 census:

(HO107, Piece 2448 Folio 542 page 46 Bedwellty)

Elizabeth Jones Head widow 26 born Le Mason, Somerset
John Jones Son 8 born Bedwellty
David Jones son 3 born "
Thomas Jones son 1 born "
Eleanor Michael lodger 27 lodger born Cilgerran Pembs

What is interesting about this one is that Eleanor Michael is the future mother-in-law of the Thomas Jones that I'm searching for!!!

I cannot find this family on any other census - can anyone help?

Thanks
Helen
Logged
Monmouthshire: Price, Williams, Jones, Roberts
Montgomery: Haycock, Humphreys
Herefordshire: Tunley, Meredith, Monnington
Pembrokeshire: Roberts
Lancashire:Unger, Riley, Dawn, Roberts, Flockhart, Abraham
Somerset: Dawn, Rogers
Worcestershire: Price, Saint

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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