Welcome, Guest. Please login or register for free.
Did you miss your activation email?
Sunday 06 December 09 05:04 UTC (UK)
Welcome Home Help Surnames Library Shop Search Login Register

+  RootsChat.Com
|-+  Beginners
| |-+  Beginners
| | |-+  Wits end
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Wits end  (Read 601 times)
steveuk
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 11


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Wits end
« on: Tuesday 20 October 09 22:41 UTC (UK) »
Hi everyone. Just joined hoping to get a few pointers from you all.
I have been researching my family for about four years and have hit a brick wall. I am unable to find my great grandfather Henry William Morgans and his wife Ellen Mary (White). They both vanished after the birth of my grandfather Stephen Robert Morgans born 1897 Greenwich. I can find no records of their deaths etc although my grandfather was believed to be an orphan and was placed in the Sidcup (Lamorbey) Homes with his brother and sister (names unknown). I have access to all census and BMD records but have failed to find them. Henry William Morgans was born about 1869 Deptford Kent and is listed as age 1 1871 census. However I can find no record of his birth but his six siblings were registered.  He married Ellen in 1892 and had my grandfather in 1897. This is the last record I can find of them. 1911 shows no records either. Please help with your suggestions. Greatly appreciated.
Logged
Morgans deptford London/Kent/Surrey/Staffordshire
Goodman Staffordshire
Birch London Lambeth
c-side
RootsChat Veteran
*****
Posts: 602


A new generation - my great grandson 11-09-09
Re: Wits end
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 20 October 09 23:03 UTC (UK) »
Hi Steve and welcome to rootschat,

Forgive me if I ask obvious questions but need to eliminate what you have already done.

Presumably you have the marriage cert of these elusive g. grandparents and the father shown on that matches the guy on the 1871 census as being his father.  I only ask because sometimes someone can be listed as son when he is in fact cousin etc.

Do you have them on 1881 and 1891?

Have you searched using a wildcard to cover for mistranscriptions?

OK, I know - more questions and no answers - yet  Grin

Christine
Logged
geniecolgan
RootsChat Veteran
*****
Posts: 860


Wheee!
Re: Wits end
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 20 October 09 23:08 UTC (UK) »
Hello,

Have you discounted this registration?

Henry William Morgan (no S) Sep,1869,Dartford, 2a,375
Logged
Colgan, Scott, Templeton in Northern Antrim
Colgan in Saskatchewan, Canada
Durrant in Herts & Middlesex
Ford,Smith in Hammersmith, Fulham, Brentford
Whiting in Berkshire
Weller in Sussex and London
Walker in the 24th of Foot, (Canada, Ireland, India and South Africa) and London
steveuk
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 11


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Wits end
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 20 October 09 23:26 UTC (UK) »
Hello and thank you for your prompt replies.

Hi Christine. Yes I have the marriage cert and they do match thanks.  I have him age 11 1881 but no record 1891. He marriad 1892 and was living Finch Street ? married in All Saints Church Newington.
Wild card no joy either I'm afraid.

Hello Geniecolgan: Thanks I have that record but his other 6 siblings all born and registered Greenwich/Deptford and the plural Morgans used. I have toyed with buying the cert to eliminate him. Many thanks.
Logged
Morgans deptford London/Kent/Surrey/Staffordshire
Goodman Staffordshire
Birch London Lambeth
c-side
RootsChat Veteran
*****
Posts: 602


A new generation - my great grandson 11-09-09
Re: Wits end
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 21 October 09 21:55 UTC (UK) »
Hi Steve,

Certainly elusive - these folks of yours.

Firstly don't get too hung up on the use of the plural in the name - remember that it was the registrar/enumerator etc who wrote down the names.  After that you are the mercy of the transcriber who may not have read it properly.

I couldn't find a death for Henry William but if he did die I wondered about the possibility of Ellen Mary remarrying in which case you'd have a brand new surname and often the children of a previous marriage are also listed under this name.

A bit more sleuthing perhaps  Grin

Christine
Logged
steveuk
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 11


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Wits end
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 22 October 09 08:27 UTC (UK) »
Hi Chris.

i agree with you about the plural/singular and have applied this when searching. However I still found no results. I have used many variations and wild cards too but to no avail.

Mary and Henry just disappeared after the birth of my grandfather.

I have also tried the marriage angle too but again no joy.

I will not give up.

Many thanks again.
Logged
Morgans deptford London/Kent/Surrey/Staffordshire
Goodman Staffordshire
Birch London Lambeth
casalguidi
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
*******
Posts: 11919
Re: Wits end
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 22 October 09 09:16 UTC (UK) »
Hi Steve

Am I correct in thinking that young Stephen is in hospital in 1901? If so, have you found him in 1911? 

Is there an address and occupation for Henry on Stephen's birth certificate?

Casalguidi Smiley
« Last Edit: Thursday 22 October 09 13:00 UTC (UK) by casalguidi » Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
jorose
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 4671
Re: Wits end
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 22 October 09 13:56 UTC (UK) »
There is some description of the homes here:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Greenwich/Greenwich.shtml

It seems the LMA do have records for the Sidcup homes, including admissions and so on. There might be some mention of the parents on these.
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
steveuk
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 11


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Wits end
« Reply #8 on: Friday 23 October 09 11:52 UTC (UK) »
Hello again Chris and Hello Jorose.

Chris the record you speak of Stephen Morgans in hospital (Berkshire i think it was) did look a possibility but quite a distance from his birth place and siblings. I have found a Stephen Morgan age 10 (although my grandfather would have been 14 as he was born 1897) and also an Ellen Morgan age 12 in the Sidcup homes 1911. Both were born in Greenwich so I am persuing this line too. I was in the process of trying to obtain the entry records from the LMA but it appears that some are illegible for the suspect years. I think that I will have to visit them personally.

Thank you Jorose I have seen the link you attached and I was excited when I first found this. I just need to get over there and investigate as much as I can. Ancestry have included the LMA records in my subscription but I'm not sure if these will be included. I'm very grateful for the help.

Regards..
Logged
Morgans deptford London/Kent/Surrey/Staffordshire
Goodman Staffordshire
Birch London Lambeth
steveuk
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 11


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Wits end
« Reply #9 on: Friday 23 October 09 11:58 UTC (UK) »
Chris I'm sorry but I did not answer your questions fully re: Father mentioned and address etc.

Stephens father Henry was listed on his birth cert as a Tailor and living 5 Queens Court Deptford.

Mother is Ellen Mary White.

At the time of his marriage 1892  Newington he was living 2 Finch Street. His profession was given as Carver.

Regards.
Logged
Morgans deptford London/Kent/Surrey/Staffordshire
Goodman Staffordshire
Birch London Lambeth
carol8353
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 5830


My two gorgeous grandsons
Re: Wits end
« Reply #10 on: Friday 23 October 09 17:04 UTC (UK) »
For anyone else trying to find Henry in 1891,here's the family in 1881.
Living at the address Henry married from in 1892.

Stephen R. MORGANS   Head    41   Deptford   Journeyman Tailor     
Hannah MORGANS   Wife     40   Sedgley Stafford Journeyman Tailor's Wife     
Stephen R. MORGANS   Son      13   Deptford,   Scholar     
Henry MORGANS   Son       11   Deptford,   Scholar     
Elizabeth MORGANS   Dau        7   Deptford,    Scholar     
William MORGANS   Son         4           
Samuel MORGANS   Son       8 m           

5 Queens Court  Deptford St Paul, Kent
RG11/ 705 folio 20 oage 33

Carol
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Rogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas
Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire
Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset
Jenner,Clapham Surrey
Kendrick,Liverpool
Wensley,Somerset

Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland
Blake and Maloney from  Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland
carol8353
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 5830


My two gorgeous grandsons
Re: Wits end
« Reply #11 on: Friday 23 October 09 17:09 UTC (UK) »
Well I've found mum and dad and the rest of em in 1891  Grin
Dad's been transcribed as Steven.They are at 41 Wellington Street Deptford.

RG12/ 507 Folio 49  Page 26

Henry is nowhere to be seen though- wonder if he served in the Army for a short time?

Carol
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Rogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas
Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire
Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset
Jenner,Clapham Surrey
Kendrick,Liverpool
Wensley,Somerset

Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland
Blake and Maloney from  Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland
casalguidi
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
*******
Posts: 11919
Re: Wits end
« Reply #12 on: Friday 23 October 09 17:39 UTC (UK) »
I did wonder if this could be Stephen Robert's sister ...............

Ellen Mary MORGAN dau of Albert Henry & Ellen Mary, tailor of 59 Creek Road baptised Deptford St Paul 3 Jun 1896 (born 9 May 1896) Huh

Casalguidi Smiley
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
steveuk
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 11


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Wits end
« Reply #13 on: Friday 23 October 09 22:44 UTC (UK) »
Hi Carol.

I have all the records for the Morgans family dating back to 1780, including all census returns from 1841. Henry was not married from Welington St but from Finch St Newington.

Many thanks.
Logged
Morgans deptford London/Kent/Surrey/Staffordshire
Goodman Staffordshire
Birch London Lambeth
carol8353
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 5830


My two gorgeous grandsons
Re: Wits end
« Reply #14 on: Friday 23 October 09 22:46 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: steveuk on Friday 23 October 09 22:44 UTC (UK)
Hi Carol.

I have all the records for the Morgans family dating back to 1780, including all census returns from 1841. Henry was not married from Welington St but from Finch St Newington.

Many thanks.
Yes I saw that on your reply number 9 earlier. I was giving the address where the rest of the family were in 1891  Wink
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Rogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas
Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire
Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset
Jenner,Clapham Surrey
Kendrick,Liverpool
Wensley,Somerset

Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland
Blake and Maloney from  Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »


[Copyright] [Shrink Link] [About Us] [Terms of Use]
All Census Lookups are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only
RootsChat.com cannot be held responsible directly or indirectly for the messages or content posted by others. Inline images in messages are the copyright of the respective linked sites.
RootsChat.com, Europa House, Bury, Lancashire, BL9 5BT

In loving memory of Eric George Davies, 1934-2009, the father of RootsChat.com































Powered by SMF 1.0.7 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
0.047:19