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Author Topic: David Williams Llansaintffraid  (Read 155 times)
heywood
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Posts: 8232
Re: David Williams Llansaintffraid
« Reply #15 on: Friday 23 October 09 22:12 UTC (UK) »
now I am back to where I began with a David and Catherine in 1841 which I had discounted earlier  Sad

1841 HO107; Piece 1373; Book: 11; Folio: 19; Page: 18
Llandur  Huh  Llansaintffraid
David Williams 30 yrs
Catharine Williams 35 yrs
Morgan Williams 11 ys
Elizabeth Williams 9 yrs
Mary Williams 2 yrs

that's my lot  - goodnight  Cheesy
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
heywood
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Posts: 8232
Re: David Williams Llansaintffraid
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 24 October 09 15:43 UTC (UK) »
Hello again,

back again to stry to make sense of this- would appreciate some input from you fisherj  Smiley

Family Search has baptisms, some of which fit the 1841 entry for David and Catherine:
Morgan -1830; Elizabeth -1832 ; Eleanor 1837 and Catherine 1839.

Eleanor and Catherine fit with the Davies family of 1841. That still leaves Mary (with David and Catharine) and Jane and Susan who are with the Davieses.
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
fisherj
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 42


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: David Williams Llansaintffraid
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 24 October 09 20:35 UTC (UK) »
thank you so much Liz and Heywood for all your interest and work on my behalf!

I have to confess that I do not have access to ancestry (I use the library for that - but not late on a Friday evening!)  I had found on the web www.llanon.org.uk/joyceweb/census where someone has painstakingly transcribed the 1841; 1851; 1861 and 1871 censuses.  Obviously every time things are transcribed there is the possibility of error....

The best I could come up with is this....

1841 - the family is split....

Llandwr David Williams 30 labourer
Catherine Williams 35
Morgan Williams 11
Elizabeth Williams 9

(you say that there was another child Mary Williams 2 there too but the website did not have this. )

Eleanor is for some reason at this address... Could it be that mother Catherine is having a baby... David for example who seems to be in the family in 1851.

Tynewydd (you've got "Tineved")  Daniel Davies 30Farmer
James James 9 MS (gosh so young)
Eleanor Williams 4
Catherine Williams 3
Evan Williams 1 ( though you have given the name Susan so I am not sure which is accurate given I haven't been able to find either Evan nor Susan later!!)
Thansk for the tip that there was a Moses and Mary Williams next door...perhpas they are kindly gran or great grand parents but what the connect is with Daniel Davies I can't work out unfortunately.

Then 1851....
Pengyrdd David Willliams 45 b. Llanbadarn Tre
Catherine 40 b. llanSF
Elizabeth 19
Catherine 12 (she fits with the Catherine at Tynewydd in 1841)
David Williams 9
Ann Williams 5

Eleanor is now Elinor Williams, servant at Tyllwyd to
Margaret Jones H 29 unmarried
Elizabeth Jones D 5 (who's a naughty girl then)
Elinor Williams servant 14 b. LlanSF

Then 1861I don't think it is the family at Penrheol...   I think it is the David and Catherine at Waun???
Waun??? David Willliams H 53 road labourer - b. Llanbadarn Trefeglwys
Catherine W 55
Jane D U 24 (ok not quite the same age as the Jane at Tynewydd in 1841 but not bad)
David Williams S U 19 (fits with the family at Pengyrd)
Margaret Jones G/D 7 ( could this be another product of Magdalen Jones where Eleanor was a servant in 1851??  Indeeed maybe Elinor was not the servant of Magdalenbut just living there?)

1871

Wren (or should it be Wern?) Eli  David Williams H 64 labourer Llansantffraid)
Catherine Willias W 65
Eleanor Williams D 33 U ( this is correct or fits because she married later that year and was a spinster)
Margaret Williams D 17 U  (yes I agreee probably this is the granddaughter as per 1861.

What do you think? 

And I wonder whether any of these buildings exist??

Thansk again

Joy
Logged
Woodmancote:  Hobbs; Davison
Bisley:  Fisher
Eastcombe:  Winstone
Chalford:  Lambert
Newent:  Bowkett
Llangurig; Bedlinog: Rees
Llanonn: Williams
Charfield:  Fowler; Selman
Olveston:  Fisher
Batheaston: Fisher
Andover, Hurstbourne, Woodcutt, Shinfield: Farmer & Tanner
Alresford: Sprangle; Hack
heywood
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 8232
Re: David Williams Llansaintffraid
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 24 October 09 20:41 UTC (UK) »
Hi Joy,

well it looks pretty much the same allowing for spellings and interpretations  Cheesy

As the baptisms are on Family Search - I wonder if it is worth following that lead.

There do seem to be several children and so as you say, the children may be farmed out when a new one is imminent or has just arrived and then sadly work arrived very soon in their lives and they became servants!

Interesting that Eleanor came back home- maybe she was needed- another pair of hands perhaps in illness or advancing age (60s must have been quite old  Shocked)
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
fisherj
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 42


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: David Williams Llansaintffraid
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 24 October 09 21:19 UTC (UK) »
Pleased that you think this could be right!!

(Sort of fits, doesn't it?)

I have to say I have wondered why she was still unmarried at 34 - that would certainly be unusual wouldn't it?  At that age she married Edward Rees aged 45years. He was a widower (and a wine merchant). 

You can't help but wonder what some of these people were like.

Thanks again for all your assistance.
Logged
Woodmancote:  Hobbs; Davison
Bisley:  Fisher
Eastcombe:  Winstone
Chalford:  Lambert
Newent:  Bowkett
Llangurig; Bedlinog: Rees
Llanonn: Williams
Charfield:  Fowler; Selman
Olveston:  Fisher
Batheaston: Fisher
Andover, Hurstbourne, Woodcutt, Shinfield: Farmer & Tanner
Alresford: Sprangle; Hack
heywood
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 8232
Re: David Williams Llansaintffraid
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 24 October 09 21:32 UTC (UK) »
I think this perhaps Eleanor in 1861

1861  RG9; Piece: 4193; Folio: 76; Page: 1

Dolar Llansanffraid

William Herbert 64 yrs Vicar
Elizabeth Herbert 66 yrs
Frances E Herbert daur 30 yrs
Elinor Williams 24 yrs House Servant  b Llannon
Hannah Thomas 20 yrs  -do-
Hannah Jones 12 yrs  -do-

I checked Mr Herbert's occupation (line through part of it) and he is the local vicar so Elinor was presumably a 'good woman' and hopefully had a happy married life - with a nice husband and plenty of wine  Grin
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
fisherj
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 42


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: David Williams Llansaintffraid
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 24 October 09 22:57 UTC (UK) »
Ahh... the missing piece... I couldnt find her in 1861.   I had noted Rev Herberts name before.   

I wonder whether Margaret Jones was her daughter and thats why she didnt marry....  though the chances are that she would be called Williams.

Well, our Eleanor "had to" get married to Edward Rees the wine merchant from Lampeter (actually born in Llangurig).  So not such a saint.  And she gave birth in the Gin Palace,  Roll Eyes Lampeter, to Sarah.... that's where Edward was the innkeeper.   I wonder whether she was a bit of a sad creature that he led astray  Cry.

I could not find David or Catherine in the 1881 census (hint)  Huh.
Logged
Woodmancote:  Hobbs; Davison
Bisley:  Fisher
Eastcombe:  Winstone
Chalford:  Lambert
Newent:  Bowkett
Llangurig; Bedlinog: Rees
Llanonn: Williams
Charfield:  Fowler; Selman
Olveston:  Fisher
Batheaston: Fisher
Andover, Hurstbourne, Woodcutt, Shinfield: Farmer & Tanner
Alresford: Sprangle; Hack
heywood
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 8232
Re: David Williams Llansaintffraid
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 24 October 09 23:48 UTC (UK) »
I think there are possible deaths for David and Catherine if you look at Free BMD.

Hopefully Eleanor had a lovely life with her husband and enjoyed her life with him.
I wondered too if Margaret was her child but there were other daughters and with Williams and Jones- that would be too hard  Shocked
Logged
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
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