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Author Topic: Appearing on census during army service?  (Read 133 times)
Leah-WW
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Appearing on census during army service?
« on: Sunday 25 October 09 16:39 UTC (UK) »
I wonder if anyone can help me with a (probably) very basic question, please?

My GG-Grandfather, William Heath Brimicombe, served in the 1st Battalion Coldstream Guards from January 1880. By the 1891 census he is listed as a Railway Policeman. I can't locate him on the 1881 census though, and wondered if this was because he was serving in the army at this time? I know that he was married in Islington in October 1881, so he was in the country at that time, and I know that he was a Private in July 1881 from the service papers sent to me by the Coldstream Guards.
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km1971
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Posts: 2717


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Appearing on census during army service?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 25 October 09 17:06 UTC (UK) »
Hi Leah

They were in Dublin for the 1881 census. They were there until March 1882, so either he was on furlough when he married, or he transferred to the 2nd Battalion, who were in Wellington Barracks.

If he enlisted in December 1880 he should have served until January 1892. If he was a civilian in April 1891, he was either discharged earlier, or (more Likely) transferred to the Army Reserve after 6 years. Have you found him between 1886 and 1891? Or later as an Army Pensioner?

Ken
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Leah-WW
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Appearing on census during army service?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 25 October 09 17:29 UTC (UK) »
Hi Ken. Thanks for your very informative reply! It's interesting that you should mention a period of 6 years, as one of the papers I have from the Coldstream Guards ("WO Form 738") has "6 years" handwritten above William's name (and a large stamped 'B'), so perhaps he did transfer to the Army Reserve, and this was why he came back into service aged 52(ish) for WW1. I wonder if you know where I might find out more about the reserve? I know woefully little about military matters.

William's marriage certificate states that he was living at 30 Pembroke Street at the time of his marriage, as was his wife-to-be. This was the home of the witnesses to the marriage - William and Sarah Heath - who I know to be related to William somewhere along the line. I assume therefore that he was on leave at that time. Certainly, his marriage certificate lists his rank or profession as 1st Battalion, Coldstream Guards.

Form 738 lists William's promotions up to and including Corporal, from 24 September 1883. I have no record of him after this time until he turns up as a Railway Policeman on the 1891 census. The next reference to his military career is a line in the London Gazette dated 24 November 1917, noting his promotion from Temp Lt to Temp Capt in the 4th Battalion Notts Volunteer regiment on 18 July 1917. I haven't yet found anything about his promotion from Corporal to Lt. but have contacted the National Archives to get an estimate for having a copy of the Coldstream Guards muster rolls for 1886 to 1888 sent to me (I calculated that his date of attestation - 1880 - plus 6 years would mean that he was discharged in 1886).
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km1971
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Appearing on census during army service?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 26 October 09 07:03 UTC (UK) »
He would not have been 'promoted from Corporal to Lt'. Other Ranks becoming officers were discharged then commissioned the next day. In his case there would very likely have been a long gap between the two. I cannot find his first commission in the Volunteer Force. He is not listed in the September 1918 Army List.

WW1 officer records were destroyed during WW2. What remains are supplementary files - basically correspondence, but I cannot find anything for him.

Regarding his first period of service. Men were discharged after 12 years, so he was probably discharged in January 1892. He would have been transferred to the 1st Class Army Reserve circa January 1886. He would have received approximately half-pay and had to attend a two week annual camp. After his discharge he would have recieved a pension of about 10d a day if his last rank was Corporal.

Between 1892 and WW1 he may have been a member of one of the part-time outfits - the Militia, Volunteer Battalions (who became the Territorial Force in 1908). Findmypast are putting the Attestation Papers for the Militia online by 2011. Some VB and TF papers will be in with the Regular papers that are also being put online by FMP. The difference is that the Militia served for 4 to 6 weeks at a time. The VB/TF attended one evening a week with a two-week annual camp. It all depends if his employers would allow time off to be in the Militia. Of course he may not have done anything military between 1892 and WW1.

Ken
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Leah-WW
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Appearing on census during army service?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 26 October 09 12:56 UTC (UK) »
Thank-you for that information Ken - very interesting!

I did some further reading last night, and the 12th (Pioneer) Battalion Sherwood Foresters (to which Capt. Brimicombe was attached) was previously the 4th Battalion Nottinghamshire Voluntary Regiment, so I will wait and hope that I can find something in the new papers which FMP are uploading Smiley

In the mean time, the papers I was sent (way back in 1999) from the Coldstream regimental historian only include details up to his promotion to Cpl in 1883. There is no mention of him being discharged, of a pension, or of him being transferred to the reserves. I wonder if it is worth me contacting them again to enquire if this is all the information they have, now that I have a little more detail on his military activities later in life?
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