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Topic: How on Earth do I read this !!!!! (Read 576 times)
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fallingonabruise
RootsChat Member
Posts: 177
'bring out your dead'
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I have just got the will of James Collins , its about 28 pages long and it all looks like this !!
could anyone give me any hints on how to go about reading it !
cheers
A
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Lloyd in london, Jelfs, Cheatham, Taylor, Raistrick, Knowles, Cassidy, Blackburn, Corns, Gallagher
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Treelover
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1064
Me
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Ok
This is what I have so far. Open to any offers
Last will and testament of us James Collins Esq of Spital Square. All of Stamford  both in the in the first ??. I give all ?? Sarah Collins an annui? ? of thousand pounds for and natural life payable quarterly. The first payment to be made? on the first quarterly day of next after ?? and also give her the use of and household goods and furniture in my house at Stamford Soill??? Life and give all boots and socks (?) ?? as a testimony of ? and ? interuppted for ?? after ? acquitaince and friendship of fifty years and ? unmoving and ?
Sorry best I can do.
PS I put question marks in - forgot they would turn it faces - apologies
Joan
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Atkinson - Congleton, Ches
Broomhead - Lancs
Clegg - Rochdale, Lancs
Dodd - Manchester, Lancs
Jones - Lancs, Shropshire, Staffs
Williams - Salford, Lancs & Wales
Kennerley - Congleton, Ches
Lees - Rutland
Redfern - Lancs & Derbyshire
Round - Staffs
Rowley - Congleton, Ches
Sankey - Burtonwood, Lancs
Shuffle(el)bottom - Lincs & Lancs
Watson - Salford, Lancs & Yorks
Walker - Manchester, Lancs
Wright - Manchester
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Treelover
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1064
Me
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Hi
Me again,
Just realised the will is for a Collins, but you don't list that surname in your family list. Do you have surname Collins in your family. My son in law is a Collins. Don't suppose you have a Richard Collins and Thomasina Balcomb(e) in your tree?
Joan
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Atkinson - Congleton, Ches
Broomhead - Lancs
Clegg - Rochdale, Lancs
Dodd - Manchester, Lancs
Jones - Lancs, Shropshire, Staffs
Williams - Salford, Lancs & Wales
Kennerley - Congleton, Ches
Lees - Rutland
Redfern - Lancs & Derbyshire
Round - Staffs
Rowley - Congleton, Ches
Sankey - Burtonwood, Lancs
Shuffle(el)bottom - Lincs & Lancs
Watson - Salford, Lancs & Yorks
Walker - Manchester, Lancs
Wright - Manchester
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fallingonabruise
RootsChat Member
Posts: 177
'bring out your dead'
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so far i've got,
of Spital square, also of Stamford Hill,
to my wife Sarah Collins,
 only 28 pages to go
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Lloyd in london, Jelfs, Cheatham, Taylor, Raistrick, Knowles, Cassidy, Blackburn, Corns, Gallagher
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DudleyWinchurch
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 903
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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from 3rd line down looks like:
Esq (crossed out) In the first place I give and bequeath to my wife Sarah Collins an annuity of two thousand pounds for and during her natural life payable quarterly the first payment to be made on the first quarterly day of payment next after ?? and also give her the use and dis..?? of my carriages ...
sorry, must get some sleep now, I'll look again tomorrow if I can find some time.
good luck with it.
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McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, Cuthbert, Quirk, O'Malley (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
Concannon, Moore, Markowski (Markesky), Mottram, Lawton (Black Country)
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fallingonabruise
RootsChat Member
Posts: 177
'bring out your dead'
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Hi
Me again,
Just realised the will is for a Collins, but you don't list that surname in your family list. Do you have surname Collins in your family. My son in law is a Collins. Don't suppose you have a Richard Collins and Thomasina Balcomb(e) in your tree?
Joan
James Collins is supposidly the grandfather of my g-g-grandfather John Ballard Lloyd so only just starting on the Collins bit, If I find a Richard I'll let you know
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Lloyd in london, Jelfs, Cheatham, Taylor, Raistrick, Knowles, Cassidy, Blackburn, Corns, Gallagher
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DudleyWinchurch
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 903
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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last line?
... and also a mourning ring and I give and bequeath to the several persons ...
?
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McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, Cuthbert, Quirk, O'Malley (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
Concannon, Moore, Markowski (Markesky), Mottram, Lawton (Black Country)
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Treelover
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1064
Me
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Hi
At the moment I only have one James Collins, born about 1811 Warbleton, Sussex. But you never know 
Joan
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Atkinson - Congleton, Ches
Broomhead - Lancs
Clegg - Rochdale, Lancs
Dodd - Manchester, Lancs
Jones - Lancs, Shropshire, Staffs
Williams - Salford, Lancs & Wales
Kennerley - Congleton, Ches
Lees - Rutland
Redfern - Lancs & Derbyshire
Round - Staffs
Rowley - Congleton, Ches
Sankey - Burtonwood, Lancs
Shuffle(el)bottom - Lincs & Lancs
Watson - Salford, Lancs & Yorks
Walker - Manchester, Lancs
Wright - Manchester
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DudleyWinchurch
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 903
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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somewhere in the middle
I give and bequeath to an old and valued friend Octavious Garrow? Esq ...
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McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, Cuthbert, Quirk, O'Malley (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
Concannon, Moore, Markowski (Markesky), Mottram, Lawton (Black Country)
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Hhodgetts
RootsChat Member
Posts: 235
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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James Collins Esq
This is the last will and testament of ? James Collins of ? Square and of Stamford ? both in the county of ?
Esq in the first place I give and bequeth to my wife Sarah Collins all ?
? of two thousand pounds for and during ? ? life payable quarterly ?
first payment to ? on the first quarterly day of ? next after ?
I also give her the use and enjoyment of my carriages horses
and so on word by word filling in the gaps as the script unfolds. Long hard work. No doubt if you could scan the document page by page over time members on the forum would help out making the job that bit easier for you. Some progress has already been made. Amazing what a lot of different eyes can make.
Before going to all that hard work...... make sure he is a relative  
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Northumberland; Johnson, Johnston, Dodds, Rutherford, Gray, Kennedy, Wilson, Sanderson, Davidson and other Border Marauders as they are discovered on this journey.
Berkshire; Knight, Bristor, Sharpe, Sharp, Ashley.
Suffolk / Essex; Perce, Pearce, Pearse, Pierce, Hayes.
Midlands; Hodgetts, Parker, Easthope.
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fallingonabruise
RootsChat Member
Posts: 177
'bring out your dead'
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,396752.0.html
this is the thread about John Ballard Lloyd, one of the Times articles which i don't think i have typed up yet says JBL is trying to get money from his grandfather s will, from the executor Josiah Wilson, son in law of James Collins of Spital square and Stamford hill.
I could cry just looking at all the pages, it just seems an impossible task 
I have it all scanned as pdf if anyone wants to see the whole thing
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Lloyd in london, Jelfs, Cheatham, Taylor, Raistrick, Knowles, Cassidy, Blackburn, Corns, Gallagher
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DudleyWinchurch
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 903
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again,
I see a bit more every time I look, but it might be a while before I have time to do much. Otherwise I'd be happy to do it as a practice as I have another one that I am really struggling with which belongs to a (probably very distant) relation.
PM me if you don't get a better offer and I'll send you an email address to send it to.
First line, agree mostly as Treelove suggested but I think that, in full, it may be:
This is the last Will and Testament of John Collins of Spital Square and of Stamford Hill both in the county of Middlesex ...
The writer doesn't seem big on punctuation and I think that, as I suggested before, the next bit is Esq but crossed out [because he put it at the end of all the clauses instead of immediately after the name, perhaps?]
It almost sounds as if the writer is overusing legalese!
... on the first quarterly day of payment next after my (demise??) [= first quarter day after I die?]
... the use and enjoyment of my carriages horses plate ?? ?? household goods and furniture in my house at Stamford Hill (outwith?? [= throughout?]) her life
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McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, Cuthbert, Quirk, O'Malley (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
Concannon, Moore, Markowski (Markesky), Mottram, Lawton (Black Country)
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fallingonabruise
RootsChat Member
Posts: 177
'bring out your dead'
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thanks for all the help so far,
I gave myself a headache last night looking at it, are they usually this long ?!
He was a solicitor so I suppose it will be full of complicated legal wording .
The main thing really is to find all the names mentioned in it, ha ha that makes it sound easy
any help is very appreciated !! thank you
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Lloyd in london, Jelfs, Cheatham, Taylor, Raistrick, Knowles, Cassidy, Blackburn, Corns, Gallagher
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ozcanucka
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Well, actually, just wanting the names might actually make it easy. The word "bequeath" is likely consistently used before each bequest, and is distinctive, with the line running from "b" over the "e" to the "q", and the joined "th". So a less headache-inducing start might be to scan for that word, and then work out the names associated nearby. Then if you get stuck on a name you can post it here for help, and gradually, your eyes will get used to the script. Really.
Good luck!
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