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Author Topic: Can't find Death  (Read 429 times)
brushbroomstick
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Posts: 151


John William Vickers & Emma Robson my grandparents
Can't find Death
« on: Sunday 01 November 09 12:57 UTC (UK) »
For some tome now I have been trying to find the death of my gr gr grandfather James HENRY born c 1821 in Londomderry.
He married and had children in Newcastle upon Tyne/ Durham  - the last child Elizabeth being born in County Durham in the June Qtr. of 1857. His wife Joan remarried in April 1860 but try as I may I have not been able to find the death of James.
I sent for a death cert. for Oct. 1856 in Easington which I thought was sure to be his but it turned out to be for an infant.
I have looked up all the deaths for James HENRY for the whole of England from Sept. 1856 to Dec 1859 and have come up with 9. I did this because he was a coalminer and I thought perhaps he had died away from his home.
I have also looked up all the various lists of men killed in pit disasters from 1856 to 1859 throughout the country but again with no success apart from one in Bardsley Ashton under Lyme on 2/2/1858 where there is a "james (surname unknown) a stranger ". I thiought perhaps this could be him but have not found a corresponding death registration.

Any help would be appreciated.

Irene
« Last Edit: Monday 02 November 09 10:02 UTC (UK) by brushbroomstick » Logged
Broom(e) - Staffs/Shropshire/ Durham
Burnett - Northumberland & Scottish Borders
Dickson - Scottish Borders/ Northumberland
Henry - Londonderry/ Durham
Morrell - Shropshire
Neale - Norfolk/Northumberland
Powell - Shropshire
Robson - Northumberland/Durham
Stott - Northumberland/Durham
Taylor- Holy Island/Bedlington
Vass- Inverness/ Newcastle/ Durham
Vickers- Cumberland/ Durham
wozzle
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 01 November 09 13:01 UTC (UK) »
on the first line of your post his name is thomas henry
after that you refer to him as james henry
is it thomas henry or james henry we are looking for
mick
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jayaydee
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Posts: 57


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 01 November 09 13:04 UTC (UK) »
Hi
I can't find a marriage for Joan - should it be Jean?
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Ecneps
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Rosalie Mathilda Jönsson 1916-1999
Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #3 on: Monday 02 November 09 00:33 UTC (UK) »
Hi all,

1851 census shows James & Joan HENRY - so just a typo in the heading I think!

at Market Place, St.Andrew, Auckland
HO107 Piece  2385 Folio 208 Page 25
James 29 Coke Burner  Londonderry Ireland
Joan   28                    Northumberland Kenton
William 8                    Durham  Pelton
Thomas 6                   Durham Framwellgate Moor
Margaret 4                 Durham          "             "
Teasdale 1                 Durham Sunnybrow

1861 census shows Elizabeth b. Gateshead + 2 further children to the remarriage b.1858 and 1860, so as Irene says, death for James should be 1856-1858, and either Auckland or Gateshead

Irene, it's best to check for known details with the local registrar (usually free) or with the GRO (who charge for checking), before parting with your £7 cert fee

Barbara
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Ecneps
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Rosalie Mathilda Jönsson 1916-1999
Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #4 on: Monday 02 November 09 00:38 UTC (UK) »
 
Quote from: jayaydee on Sunday 01 November 09 13:04 UTC (UK)
I can't find a marriage for Joan - should it be Jean?

marriage possible?
Mar 1842 Newcastle Tyne    25   305
 HENRY  James      and on same page    STOTT    Joan

The 1860 marriage has forename as Jean on freebmd index, but image shows Joan

Irene, have you checked this marriage cert to confirm that Joan was a widow when she married George Peverly?


Barbara     
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
brushbroomstick
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Posts: 151


John William Vickers & Emma Robson my grandparents
Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #5 on: Monday 02 November 09 10:10 UTC (UK) »
I had thought about checking the birth record of child Elizabeth to see whether father was shown as deceased.
I do not have the marriage certificate of Joan and George Peverley. I think the child born 1858 was to a previous marriage of George Peverley but that needs further investigation.

Irene
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Broom(e) - Staffs/Shropshire/ Durham
Burnett - Northumberland & Scottish Borders
Dickson - Scottish Borders/ Northumberland
Henry - Londonderry/ Durham
Morrell - Shropshire
Neale - Norfolk/Northumberland
Powell - Shropshire
Robson - Northumberland/Durham
Stott - Northumberland/Durham
Taylor- Holy Island/Bedlington
Vass- Inverness/ Newcastle/ Durham
Vickers- Cumberland/ Durham
Ecneps
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Rosalie Mathilda Jönsson 1916-1999
Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #6 on: Monday 02 November 09 13:47 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: brushbroomstick on Monday 02 November 09 10:10 UTC (UK)
I had thought about checking the birth record of child Elizabeth to see whether father was shown as deceased.


That's a good idea, would narrow down the possible death date - of course it's possible they were divorced, haven't been able to find his death as yet unless as you thought, he might have been working away from home

Barbara
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
angelfish58
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Who is Norman Carne & why do we have his photo?
Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #7 on: Monday 02 November 09 15:56 UTC (UK) »
Just to confuse the issue there's a Sunderland burial for a James Henry age 30 in 1851 (Durham Records Online). I've just had a quick look at the 1851 census and there doesn't appear to be a James Henry in Sunderland, but I might've missed him, so I wonder if your man went there for work after the census or if it's just a coincidence.

Elizabeths birth cert/ baptism might well be worth a look. (sorry, there are so many illegitimate children in my tree it's nearly always my first thought  Grin)
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brushbroomstick
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Posts: 151


John William Vickers & Emma Robson my grandparents
Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #8 on: Monday 02 November 09 19:15 UTC (UK) »
In 1851 my James was with his wife Joan and 4 children living at Market Place Bishops Auckland. His occupation was "Coke Burner".  Just to be misleading I thought he was a coal miner!

Irene
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Broom(e) - Staffs/Shropshire/ Durham
Burnett - Northumberland & Scottish Borders
Dickson - Scottish Borders/ Northumberland
Henry - Londonderry/ Durham
Morrell - Shropshire
Neale - Norfolk/Northumberland
Powell - Shropshire
Robson - Northumberland/Durham
Stott - Northumberland/Durham
Taylor- Holy Island/Bedlington
Vass- Inverness/ Newcastle/ Durham
Vickers- Cumberland/ Durham
Ecneps
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Rosalie Mathilda Jönsson 1916-1999
Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #9 on: Monday 02 November 09 20:04 UTC (UK) »
The James who died in Sunderland was a Labourer, not ruling him out though Angelfish, age is right

burial Sunderland Holy Trinity
30 Jun 1851 James Henry, of 11 Robinson's Lane, age 30, died 29 Jun 1851 labourer

just trying to find Robinsons Lane in 1851 census to see if he was there then

Barbara
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
brushbroomstick
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Posts: 151


John William Vickers & Emma Robson my grandparents
Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 03 November 09 09:20 UTC (UK) »
If this was the death of my James HENRY then who was the father of my gr gr grandmother's children born in 1854 and 1857?
My James could not have been in Sunderland at the 1851 census as he was living with his wife and chidren in Bishop Auckland.
I must get the birth certificate of Elizabeth born 1857.

Irene
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Broom(e) - Staffs/Shropshire/ Durham
Burnett - Northumberland & Scottish Borders
Dickson - Scottish Borders/ Northumberland
Henry - Londonderry/ Durham
Morrell - Shropshire
Neale - Norfolk/Northumberland
Powell - Shropshire
Robson - Northumberland/Durham
Stott - Northumberland/Durham
Taylor- Holy Island/Bedlington
Vass- Inverness/ Newcastle/ Durham
Vickers- Cumberland/ Durham
Ecneps
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Rosalie Mathilda Jönsson 1916-1999
Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 03 November 09 09:54 UTC (UK) »
We're not saying your James was in Sunderland, just that a James died there.  I don't think it is the right one, but, to eliminate that death (in case James was away from home when he died) - if we find this James in Sunderland in 1851 census then we know it's not your James.

The 1851 census was taken 30/31st March and the death was 29th June, so it is a possibility, as I said, just trying to eliminate him

Barbara  Smiley
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
brushbroomstick
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 151


John William Vickers & Emma Robson my grandparents
Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 03 November 09 16:14 UTC (UK) »
But I have a copy of the 1851 census showing he was at home in Bishop Auckland on the night of the census.

Irene
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Broom(e) - Staffs/Shropshire/ Durham
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Henry - Londonderry/ Durham
Morrell - Shropshire
Neale - Norfolk/Northumberland
Powell - Shropshire
Robson - Northumberland/Durham
Stott - Northumberland/Durham
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wozzle
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Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 03 November 09 16:25 UTC (UK) »
brush broomstick
i think what ecneps is saying is that although you know your man was at home on the night of the 1851 census the death in sunderland occurred after that census
what she wants to find is another james in sunderland on the night of the census
this would then probably  be the james that died later that year and he could then be discounted.
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angelfish58
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Who is Norman Carne & why do we have his photo?
Re: Can't find Death
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 03 November 09 16:44 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: wozzle on Tuesday 03 November 09 16:25 UTC (UK)
brush broomstick
i think what ecneps is saying is that although you know your man was at home on the night of the 1851 census the death in sunderland occurred after that census
what she wants to find is another james in sunderland on the night of the census
this would then probably  be the james that died later that year and he could then be discounted.

Exactly. Basically we're looking for a death for a man named James Henry born in 1821 and on that basis the Sunderland man fits the bill. However, I don't think anyone is convinced that this is your James Henry but now he's turned up he needs to be considered. It's also possible that James could've gone back to Ireland and died there.
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