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Topic: Charles Cameron (Read 325 times)
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torre
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 46
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I am trying to trace the ancestry of Charles Cameron who was born about 1879.
On 27 April 1902 Charles married Frances Hook, in Stepney (London)
Charles was born in Scotland.
His father was also called Charles Cameron and originally the family came from Oban. (I think)
Charles Cameron senior was living in the Aberdeen area about 1940-1950 with a 'housekeeper' called Molly. His wife had, by this time, died.
Can anyone help me?
I would like to find the maiden name of Charles senior's wife (Charles junior's mother) and any further information about Charles Cameron senior and his wife.
Many thanks
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9214
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Hi Torre
What was father Charles' occupation on his son's 1902 marriage? We might be able to find Charles' snr through his occupation on the 1901 census. Is Charles Jnr the 22 yrs Charles showing as a carpenter and joiner in Islington in 1901?
I am slightly thrown though by father being still alive in the 1940s and 50s as this would potentially have him close to his century given Charles' Jnr birth year circa 1879 
Monica 
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torre
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 46
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Charles senior was show on his son's marriage certificate as being an 'overseer'
I think Charles senior lived to a ripe old age. I was told by his great granddaughter that she was taken to Aberdeen to see him as a small child. This would have been in the 1940s
She also remembers her grandfather Charles junior. He had hardly any Scottish accent when she knew him, because he had lived in London since his early 20s.
He is the same person who shows in the 1901 census in Islington as a carpenter and joiner.
He also worked at Harrods as a shopfitter.
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9214
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I think Charles, Frances and children show in Northampton on the 1911 census. If Charles was following Scottish naming order, his first born son would be called Charles (b. 1905) and second born daughter, normally called after paternal mother, looks to be Jessie (b. 1907). Playing around with the searches, he is a joiner by trade. Frances wife looks to be born in London.
This fits with this potential family for Charles Jnr. in the 1891 census:
Charles Cameron 29, cattleman b. Elgin, Morayshire
Jessie Cameron 33 b. Rathven, Banff
Charles Cameron 12 b. Rathven, Banff
Jessie Cameron 10 b. Rathven Banff
William Smith 3, nephew b. Boyndie, Banff
Address: Barn Yards, Rathven, Banff
The Charles in 1911 Northampton is showing as born in Banff
Might be worth you looking at the full 1911 census entry for the family to let you confirm details.
Monica
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9214
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Charles and Jessie Cameron in 1901:
Charles Cameron 39, Oil Blender, b. Elgin
Jessie Cameron 43, b. Rathven, Banffshire
Address: 86 Leadside Rd, St Marchar, Aberdeen
Monica
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9214
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Torre
If I can give you some suggestions of how to take your research forward:
- The 1911 census entry in Northampton will confirm the children and birth places for Charles and Frances ~ www.1911census.co.uk
- Have a look on FreeBmd ~ www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl From 1911ish you can add mother's maiden name. You can see other children for Charles and Frances, including one born in Northampton in 1911 which helps to firm up the family entry in 1911 there. The family looked to have moved down back to the London area after this time going by the children's birth places after this date.
I think the family in Rathven Banff is likely to be Charles Jnr's. You need to move on to the Scottish resources to progress further:
- www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk is the official pay to view site for BMDs original images. Although pay to view, the costs are reasonable. For £1.20 you can view original images from the registers on line and then save on to your computer.
- I've had a look and there is only one marriage in Banff for a Charles Cameron in the right period. So happens in Rathven and the bride's name is Jessie (Farquhar) in 1880. Given Charles Jnr was born before this date, I've checked and I think his registration shows in 1878 in Rathven under the surname of Farquhar, his mother's surname
- Scottish certificates have a lot more info that the English ones. The marriage cert for Charles and Jessie should include full details on their parents, including mothers' full names. This can then let you work back on their lines.
- You can also search for deaths on SP. Always easier for married women as you can search with both maiden and married names. Jessie's death shows in the Aberdeen City area in 1919. One important thing to remember when searching for Jessie is that in Scotland the names Jessie & Janet are interchangeable and you will find regitrations under either. Her death I think shows as Janet (and possibly her birth too).
- Charles Snr's death is also there, 1950 it is  It shows in the Aberdeen City area also, with a birth year of 1862 which also matches what we are seeing in the censuses. Death certs in Scotland are also more informative than the English certs. It should include spouse's name, parents' names and details on who reported the death which may provide more clues.
Have fun with the research
Monica
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torre
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 46
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for all that information.
I know I'm still new to all this, but I don't think the family in Northampton are my Camerons.
The children of Charles Cameron and Frances Hook were all born in London.
They were Jessie, Sylvia, Kathleen, Nancy, Janet, Charles and William.
All were born in the east end of London. I have a birth certificate for Jessie. She was born on 18 November 1906 in West Ham.
I'm going to keep digging, but if you can think of anything else I can do please, please let me know.
I can't believe that someone who was born so recently can be so difficult to find.
Thanks for your help
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ibi
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 362
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I was fascinated by this one from the point of view of seeing how many death records there are in Aberdeen of a Charles CAMERON of an advanced age.
Initially I had no success because I was looking at too great an age in the ScotlandsPeople index, so I took the age down a bit, and probably found him.
The record is that for Charles Cameron in 1950 aged 88 ABERDEEN SOUTHERN DISTRICT ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/02 0050 . (See Monica's comment above.)
But that means that, if the age of 88 was correct, he was unusually young to have a son in 1879 !
This death record shows his first marriage as being to Jessie FARQUHAR, - see above re Charles being born prior to the 1880 marriage, when Charles shows as 20 which removes my concerns re the death register age entry.
His second wife, still living in 1950, was Mary Ann GAMMACK or KILSH - one surname will be her maiden name, the other her married name from a previous marriage. They married in Aberdeen in 1923, Molly is often a pet name for someone called Mary.
His occupation is shown as Foreman in a paint works, - overseer = foreman ?!
Just to complicate matters Charles was born as Charles Cameron RUSSELL, illegitimate, in Elgin, in 1861, to Helen RUSSELL. No father's name is shown on the birth register entry.
On the death register entry his father is shown as Duncan CAMERON, Building Mason (Deceased), but the format of his mother's name as plain Helen RUSSELL rather than Helen CAMERON M[aiden] S[urname] RUSSELL, confirms the illegitimacy. Helen RUSSELL later married William MERSON in 1873 in Elgin.
On his 1880 marriage register entry, his father is shown as Duncan CAMERON Mason (Journeyman) (Reputed Father).
This is son Charles in the 1881 census, -
Knowhead Private House, Rathven, Banff, Scotland
Jessie CAMRON, Married, age 23, b. Rathven, Banff.
Head [of Household], Farm Servants Wife
Charles CAMRON, aged 2, b. Rathven, Banff.
Rel[ationship] Son
Jessie CAMORON (CAMRON) aged 4 m, b. Rathven, Banff.
Rel: Daur
This is from the LDS 1881 CD, so that I don't know if the CAMRON is a mistrancription on the part of LDS, or as it appears in the enumeration book entry. The GROS 1881 index has a 2 year old Charles CAMRON, so it looks like the LDS entry is correct.
But no father Charles was present on census night !
The jigsaw pieces all appear to fit 
ibi
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ibi
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 362
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I don't like loose ends 
Here is Charles CAMERON in 1881 .........
Kilnhillock Cottage, Fordyce, Banff.
Mary GUNN W 40 b. Rathven, Banff.
Head Farmer 250 Acres Arable Emp 6 Men 1 Boy 1 Girl
Alexander I. GUNN 16 b. Rathven, Banff
Son
Mary A. GUNN 14 b. Rathven, Banff
Daur
Robertine GUNN 12 b. Rathven, Banff.
Daur
Anias Ian GUNN 10 b. Rathven, Banff
Son
Isabella GUNN 7 b. Rathven, Banff, Scotland
Daur
William G. B. GUNN 2 b. Fordyce, Banff, Scotland
Son
Charles CAMERON M[arried] 20 b. Fordyce, Banff
Farm Servant
Adam DAVIDSON 18 b. Rathven, Banff
Farm Servant
James PETERKIN 20 b. Fordyce, Banff
Farm Servant
James CHISHOLM 16 b. Fordyce, Banff
Farm Servant
Alexander MITCHELL 52 b. Ordiquhill, Banff
Cattleman
Helen MILTON 21 b. Keith, Banff,
Domestic Servant
ibi
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torre
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 46
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks again!!
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9214
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That's great info ibi - certainly pulls together the Scottish info
Torre, not trying to sell in the Cameron family in Northampton but...I genuinely believe it's them!
Their children in 1911 match what you know:
Frances 1903...showing as born in Essex
Charles 1905...showing as born in Essex
Jessie 1907...haven't figured her place of birth out from general searches although I can see her birth on freebmd in West Ham 4th Qrt 1906
Kathleen Grace 1909...showing as born in Essex, which fits with the West Ham birth in 4th Qrt 1908
William James 1910...showing as born in Northampton - his birth shows in Northhampton 4th Qrt 1909
There is then that birth post 1911 Census in Northampton for Margaret with mother showing as Hook. The rest of the children you have are all post 1911 children - Mabel, Syliva, Janet and Alan......
So you have all the children with the right birth places, father Charles a joiner from Banff with the right age, wife Frances the right age born in London.....
They look to have only been in Northampton for a couple of years going by the children's births and then back to the London area. But it is that 1911 entry that is important as it confirms Charles' birth place which links him back to his family.
The family we have found for Charles back in Scotland also looks to ticks all the boxes of the info you have.
It can often be much harder than this Torre
Monica
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torre
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 46
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Monica
Many thanks for all the effort you have put into this.
I have Jessie Cameron's birth certificate. She was born on 18th November 1906 in West Ham.
Her mother, Frances Hook was born on 28th October 1880 in Mile End. (I also have her birth certificate.)
According to the family, there were eight children, Jessie, Sylvia, Nancy, Janet, Mable, Charles, William and Kathleen (always known as Kit).
I have never heard of Frances (born in 1903) but as she would have been the eldest, it is possible that she died before any of the others were born and they didn't know anything about her.
No-one knows anything about a sister called Margaret, born in Northampton or a brother named Alan.
As I assume Alan would have been the youngest, at least some of the older ones would have remembered him, even if he only lived for a short time.
I'm going to try to find out more about the Northampton connection.
Thanks for all the information you have given me.
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