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Topic: Can you date this very early collodion positive / ambrotype of a lady (Read 596 times)
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catringoch
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 44
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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We came across this photo of an as yet unknown lady, but it's a very early photographic technique called collodion positive, or ambrotype? The details on the dress are easily seen, so hopefully someone can help.
I believe this to be taken in Anglesey /North Wales in 1850s-1890s which is when this technique was in use.
Also is she likely to be in mourning here?
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Jones / Roberts / Eames/ Owen / Griffiths - Llanddona / Llanfaes / Llansadwrn Sir Fon, Anglesey
Morgans / Samuel - Llanarthe / Llannon
Jacob - Llandeilo Fawr
Hopkins - Pontarddulais
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PrueM
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7413
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Hi catringoch 
Beautiful picture - and thanks for using the 'proper' term for it: wet collodion positive on glass! Most people call them Ambrotypes but that was a particular framing technique used with the WCP. It's in beautiful condition, better than most I've seen actually.
Anyhoo...The photo is quite early, 1850s or 60s. Her dress is very plain and appears to be a dark fabric, but whether it's mourning or not is impossible to say. She might have just liked plain fabrics and not much jewellery 
I'll have a better look and see if I can narrow down the date at all. Meantime I'm sure some of the experts will be along to give their opinion of the date for you.
Cheers
Prue
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) BIGG (Kent) BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) BRISBANE (Fife) DANKS (STS) DOBSON (BRK) FRANCIS (ESS) GOODE (HAM) HAYNES (Cork) INGRAM (MDX, SOM) LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray) MORRISH (LND) NANCARROW (CON) OGILVIE (Moray, LND) STRATHDEE (LND, Banff) - SWAN (Fife)
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chinakay
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 6122
Our housegoof
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Fantastic photo, lovely!
Considering a few things...an ambrotype (sorry Prue  ) is flipped...since there was no negative, but the photo was developed directly on the glass, it's backward. So the hand displayed promintly across her waist is actually her left hand. The image is too small to make it out, but if you have access to it you can check for a wedding ring.
Since she is wearing a light coloured brooch at the neckline, it's doubtful she'd be in mourning...jewels were frowned on for a person in mourning until a later stage of the mourning, when black jewellery was sanctioned, made of jet mostly.
ALso, having one's photo taken was a very big deal, particularly for poorer or rural folk...so she would be dressed in the most fashionable outfit possible. Since hair and dress styles changed fairly dramatically between about 1865-1868 or so, likely a lady wouldn't be caught dead in an outdated outfit so it seems to me she represents the latest look here. A dressmaker (and dresses were made by hand it this time period) could easily alter an older dress to bring it up to style.....
Cheers,
China
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Moore/Paterson~Montreal
Jubb/Kerr~Mirfield~Halifax~Moffatt
Williams~Dolwyddelan
King~Bedfordshire~Hull
Jenkins~Somerset
Sellers~Hull
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IgorStrav
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1170
Arthur Pay 1915-2002 "handsome bu**er"
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I agree 20's. Before reading the posts on thread, I had said 25 to myself.
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Pay, Kent. Barham, Kent. Cork(e), Kent. Cooley, Kent. Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich. Cotterill, Derbys. Van Steenhoven, Belgium/East London. Burton, East London. Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
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PrueM
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7413
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Re. the dress, from the horizontal line that you can see running across her skirt about halfway down, it looks like she's wearing a cage crinoline, rather than the petticoat kind. Cages were patented in 1856 and quickly spread throughout Britain as they were so much more comfortable than having to wear the heavy horsehair petticoats.
The skirt also looks to be quite full all the way around (although it's quite hard to see) and this would also suggest a pre-1860 date. Around 1860 and just afterwards, the fullness of the skirt started to move towards the back, leaving the front flat.
She is wearing very full bishop's sleeves (puffy but tight at the wrist) and the shoulders are still quite high - I don't have my reference books with me but someone (China? Jim? Old Rowley?!) will hopefully know when the shoulder began to drop lower, which would help date the dress.
To be safe, I'd take a stab at 1860, +/- 2 years or so, and probably earlier rather than later.
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) BIGG (Kent) BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) BRISBANE (Fife) DANKS (STS) DOBSON (BRK) FRANCIS (ESS) GOODE (HAM) HAYNES (Cork) INGRAM (MDX, SOM) LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray) MORRISH (LND) NANCARROW (CON) OGILVIE (Moray, LND) STRATHDEE (LND, Banff) - SWAN (Fife)
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IgorStrav
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1170
Arthur Pay 1915-2002 "handsome bu**er"
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Well, I think she could be as young as 22/23, so that would fit with Prue's expert costume analysis.
What a great photo!
Or image, should I say, given the fact it's a collodion positive or ambrotype 
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Pay, Kent. Barham, Kent. Cork(e), Kent. Cooley, Kent. Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich. Cotterill, Derbys. Van Steenhoven, Belgium/East London. Burton, East London. Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
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PrueM
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7413
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Well, I think she could be as young as 22/23, so that would fit with Prue's expert costume analysis. What a great photo! Or image, should I say, given the fact it's a collodion positive or ambrotype
It's still a photo, whatever the technique 
And yes - definitely post the other photo you think might be her, we love a good "compare and contrast" on this board!
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Logged
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) BIGG (Kent) BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) BRISBANE (Fife) DANKS (STS) DOBSON (BRK) FRANCIS (ESS) GOODE (HAM) HAYNES (Cork) INGRAM (MDX, SOM) LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray) MORRISH (LND) NANCARROW (CON) OGILVIE (Moray, LND) STRATHDEE (LND, Banff) - SWAN (Fife)
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