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Author
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Topic: 1911 Merchant Navy? (Read 623 times)
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Romilly
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2044
RHD 1884
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Would anyone on here know...
Is it possible to do a Look-up on the 1911 Census for someone that you know to have been in the Merchant Navy at the time, but don't have the name of their Ship?
I have credits, & am not asking for a Look-up, - merely for searching advice.
My late Uncle, William Havelock Wilson (1894-1974) is not at home in Swansea on Census night, & I'm pretty certain that he was working for a Steam Shipping Company then, but I don't have a name for the Company or the Ship that he might be on... 
Name searches alone turn up nothing...
Any help welcomed!
Cheers, Romilly.
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Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukWilson, Warren, Rees, Davies, Williams, Newman, Dyer, Hamilton, Young |
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Humphpaul
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 58
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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If he was a deck officer he may have been an apprentice or cadet in 1911 so there just may be articles of apprenticeship which could help with the ship he was on and the company. Kew have some records but I don't know if this period is covered.
Can you get any clue as to the company from the cap badge although it may be just the general MN one.?
It looks as if he has medal ribbons so may have a war record. Apprenticeship lasted probably 4 years so and he could have been on the same ship for all 4 years
The stripes look like 2nd. mates and he could have had a 2nd.M ticket at 20 plus but unlikely to have sailed at that rank till say 23 or so or a lot later in some companies.
Humphpaul
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Paul, Humphrey, Vaughan, Lewis, Williams, Parry, Jones, Fairclough, Howard, Allan, Baylis, Wright, Ritson.
Barmouth, Llangellinin, Liverpool, Maryport Cumberland, Port Glasgow, Nercwys (Nerquis), Mold, Gwysaney, Hope, Doddleston, Higher Kinnerton.
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Romilly
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2044
RHD 1884
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If he was a deck officer he may have been an apprentice or cadet in 1911 so there just may be articles of apprenticeship which could help with the ship he was on and the company. Kew have some records but I don't know if this period is covered.
Can you get any clue as to the company from the cap badge although it may be just the general MN one.?
It looks as if he has medal ribbons so may have a war record. Apprenticeship lasted probably 4 years so and he could have been on the same ship for all 4 years
The stripes look like 2nd. mates and he could have had a 2nd.M ticket at 20 plus but unlikely to have sailed at that rank till say 23 or so or a lot later in some companies.
Humphpaul
Hi Humphpaul,
Thanks for the reply.
My (current) avatar is of my late father, & shows him during WW1 in the uniform of a Sub Lieutenant, RNR.
He was at home in Swansea on Census night 1911. Its my late Uncle, William Havelock Wilson who is missing...
I have my Uncle's WW1 RNR service Record, (from the FAARM, Yeovilton) - its just where he was on Census night 1911 that I'd like to find out...
I have visited Kew three times now, but without the names of Ships, its very difficult to search for Merchant Navy crews in that timescale.
I just thought that there might be some way of searching the 1911 for Merchant Shipping which is unknown to me.
Cheers, Romilly.
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Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukWilson, Warren, Rees, Davies, Williams, Newman, Dyer, Hamilton, Young |
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stanmapstone
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 6593
My answers only refer to England and Wales
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From 1851 to 1921 the enumeration of those aboard ships was restricted to vessels in port on census night and vessels which arrived during the following day. So if his ship was on the 'high seas' he won't have been enumerated. In 1901 the shipping returns were usually at the end of the household returns for place or port at which they delivered their schedules, and was probably the same in 1911.
Stan
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« Last Edit: Friday 06 November 09 15:04 UTC (UK) by stanmapstone »
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danuslave
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 955
My fashion sense isn't any better now!
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Hi Stan
Sorry to disagree, but quoting from
Census of the Population 1881 - Schedule for Vessels
Should you be the Master of a British Vessel and be out on the night of April 3rd, on a Coasting or short foreign voyage, you must fill up the form on April 4th and deliver it with the LEAST POSSIBLE DELAY either at the Custom House of the British Port of arrival, or to the officer who may apply for it.
I have found details of a Schedule delivered on 12 April for a ship that was in Caen Harbour on census night.
The same seems to have been true in 1861
Linda
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Romilly
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2044
RHD 1884
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Many Thanks for the replies.
I'll try searching the 1911 under his home Port, (Swansea) & see if anything pops up.
The only (slight) clue that I have to go on...is that my late Uncle told me that he had visited Russia before the Revolution...
And so I need to try & find a Shipping Company that operated between Swansea & Russia!
Romilly
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Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukWilson, Warren, Rees, Davies, Williams, Newman, Dyer, Hamilton, Young |
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Romilly
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2044
RHD 1884
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Just searched all through the 1911 Census again...and found this:
'People at other addresses
A census is taken at an address, not specifically of a family or household. If individuals were visiting friends or relatives that evening, they may, however, be included in the census at that particular address. Many people, particularly young, unmarried women, were in service and may be found at the residence of their employers.
Others, such as sailors, may have been on board ship, and will be listed under the ship’s name'.
And so it looks like the only way that I have of locating my Uncle, - is to try & find the name of his Ship!
Romilly.
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Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukWilson, Warren, Rees, Davies, Williams, Newman, Dyer, Hamilton, Young |
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3626
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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can't see any mention of your man on either of these sites
http://www.welshmariners.org.uk/
http://www.swanseamariners.org.uk/
The West Glam archives may be able to help if the ship was registered in Swansea.
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=10364
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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Romilly
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2044
RHD 1884
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Thanks for the Links Osprey.
I can't find my father or uncles on them, - even though I know that they all spent time in the Merchant Navy & RNR...
I've dug out this battered testimonial for my father; which shows that he was with a Steam Shipping Company operating out of Chatham. (I had assumed that they would be with a Swansea one because they all came from Swansea). I've tried to find a list of Ships run by this Company, but I can't seem to find much on them...
Romilly
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Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukWilson, Warren, Rees, Davies, Williams, Newman, Dyer, Hamilton, Young |
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3626
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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there was a Taylor & Sanderson co operating out of Sunderland
http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/Mariners/2008-03/1206483125
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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Romilly
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2044
RHD 1884
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Thanks for that Link Osprey.
I can't work out how to reply to messages on that Site:-(
However, a spot more Googling has netted me a pic of the SS 'John Sanderson' that my late father served on!
Cheers, Romilly 
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Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukWilson, Warren, Rees, Davies, Williams, Newman, Dyer, Hamilton, Young |
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Romilly
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2044
RHD 1884
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Others, such as sailors, may have been on board ship, and will be listed under the ship’s name'.
And so it looks like the only way that I have of locating my Uncle, - is to try & find the name of his Ship!
Hi Romilly If the individual is listed in the census you should be able to find him under his own name - then you'll get the ship's name. That's what happened to me. Have you tried all possible variations of his name using the 'advanced search' options? The 1911 is notoriously 'picky' about spellings etc. There has been lots of advice given in other threads about the best way to search it. Linda
Hi Linda,
I've tried every variant that I can think of for my Uncle...I guess I'll just have to give up 
I've got the 'How to get the best from the 1911 Census' book on order at the moment, - & so perhaps that will give me some new ideas...
Romilly.
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Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukWilson, Warren, Rees, Davies, Williams, Newman, Dyer, Hamilton, Young |
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