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Topic: Thomas Pedley (Read 369 times)
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pedlar
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello,
After many months of searching I have given up...! Although I have evidence, via censii (1861 and 1871), of my gt.gt.grandfather, Thomas Pedley's, existence, I cannot find records of his marriage (s?). His birth, calculated from the census, occured in 1811.
In 1861 the census shows three children but no wife. However there was a "housekeeper" recorded - an Elizabeth Cummings, born in Worcester in 1821.
In 1871 there appeared on the census a wife named Elizabeth - born in Worcester in 1821, according to calculations - and another child, Samuel, who was five years old...
One of the children shown on the 1861 census was missing, but he was, by now, old enough to have "flown the nest" and got married.
Can anyone, more experienced than I am, point me in the right direction towards finding gt.gt. grandfather, Thomas's marriage records...?
Jim Pedley
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rosie99
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1969
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Hi Jim
Welcome to rootschat 
Would it be possible for you to post 1861 census details including ref just so we know who we are looking for. (ie where was Thomas bn)
Rosie
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Tati
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24932
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Just noticed they were shown as Pedlar in 1841 and wife Eliza was born out of the county:
1841
HO107/1149/11 46 13
Aston, Warwickshire
Thomas Pedlar, 25, Tool Maker
Eliza, 25, not born in county
Thos, 7
Eliza, 4
Chas, 17? mo
It would be interesting to obtain Samuel's birth certificate, and a birth certificate for one of the children born before 1851, to compare their mother's maiden names.
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"My dear, I think the English pronounce it 'appiness" Desire and hunger is the fire I breathe Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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pedlar
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, Tati,
Thanks for coming back to me.
I have already investigated the "Eliza" you mention and discounted it as the wrong family for various reasons...
Incidentally, Eliza's maiden name was "Dumbleton" (One of the reasons)
Your suggesation regarding Samuel is a good one and I'll look around to see if I can identify him and then get hold of a birth certificate.
Regards,
pedlar
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trish1120
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3563
My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
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Boy this is confusing 
1881 Census
RG11/3002/7/7
20 Ct Cecil Street ( 1 House)
Birmingham, Warwickshire
Emma PEDLEY, 60, Widow, born Worcestershire, Worcester
SAMUEL Pedley, 15, Son, Unm, Brass Polisher, born Warwickshire, Birmingham
John HUGHES, 44, Lodger
Peter EDWARDS, 66, Lodger
ELIZA CUMMINGS, 60, Lodger, Widow, Worcestershire, Worcester
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All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND) |
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pedlar
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, Trish,
Now you know how I feel. Between concentration on dates and ages and similar names and birthplaces, my gt.gt.grandfather,Thomas Pedley, is driving me round the bend...!
But somebody, somewhere in history, must have made a note of his existence !
I have seen the Cecil Street record and - like you - am confused - still but struggling on...
Cheers,
pedlar
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Avandel
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello from Canada Jim,
Never say never <g>
I believe I can shed a lot of light on Thomas' existence because he was also my 2X gt grandfather. Thomas was, in fact married to Eliza Ann Dumbleton but she died in 1852 & the three children shown in the 61 census were theirs.
Their daughter Emily shown as Emma was born in 1844, she is the right age as the mother to Samuel & in the 1901 census has gone back to being called Emily. I assume you are related through Samuel??? If so you would have to purchase his birth cert, but I'm betting Emily (Emma) had him out of wedlock. I have never found a second marriage for Thomas either but think that possible for census sake Eliza Cummings was shown as Thomas' wife & the child was thought to be theirs, either by mistake or not. If you are interested in more Pedley information I have a considerable number of generations in my tree & in touch with another Pedley researcher in the Midlands, also linked to Thomas.
I look forward to hearing from you.
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pedlar
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello, Avandel,
So pleased to meet you...! And I am sitting back bathed in the enlightenment you have just offered me !
I am an elderly non-expert in the subject of Family History and started only a few months ago. I was doing OK until I reached our mutual Gt.Gt.Grandad, Thomas, at which stage I had to start all sorts of speculation about him and his women...!
I wasn't sure about Eliza Dumbleton and her output of children shown on the 1851 census, because of the 1861 census, which showed only three children and no wife for Thomas.
However, like you, I had speculated that Elizabeth Cummings was probably his second "wife" - but only for the sake of the census registrar...
I had speculated - again, like you - that although there was the possibility that Samuel was the result of their union ( women bore children at a very late age in those days!) nevertheless I thought of the possibilty that Samuel could have been Emma's child - out of wedlock?
But these were only speculations and the 1861 and the 1871 censii confused me no end, what with Thomas in the first case being recorded without a wife but with three children, and in the second case having a wife and a new child called Samuel, but having lost Alfred who was recorded on the 1861 census.
Mind you, by 1871 Alfred was of marrying age and could have flown the nest.
Yes, I am related through Samuel. If he was Thomas' son then he would be my gt.gt.uncle. If he was Emma's son he would be my gt.gt.gt.uncle, I think... (have I got it right? I'm still struggling with this so many times removed business...!)
To make the "relationship" aspect a little clearer, Thomas' son, George - born about 1850 - married Maria Baylis in 1873. Together they produced eight children, one of whom was my grandfather, William.
I have George's marriage certificate, incidentally. One of the witnesses was Emma - who married James Hadley in 1872. She was also "present" at the death of Thomas in 1873.
That's about all I have regarding Thomas Pedley. If you could possibly shed a few more details on the subject of our mysterious gt.gt.grandfather, I would be extremely grateful to you...
And, I would be interested to be put in touch with your Pedley contact in the Midlands...
But - of even more interest to me at the moment - is how you and I come to be related...!!!
With regards,
Jim Pedley (pedlar) 
Regards,
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Avandel
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jim, nice to hear from you, I've been researching for approximately 10 years but I am a bit confused about your Samuel, so I'll need you to clarify some things. First of all, who was your dad? & where did you think Samuel fits in?
Have I got the rest right? your granddad William was the son of George PEDLEY & Maria BAYLISS? But George, is the son of Thomas PEDLEY & Eliza Ann DUMBLETON. EMILY (Emma) who was on the census with Samuel, was George's sister? ?
Your gt grandfather George & my gt grandfather William, were brothers.
Also the Alfred you were asking about that did not appear on the 71 census, did in fact marry one Fanny Read in 1869.
Now I have another query, do you know about the fire in 1927? I have often wondered if that family was from another son (Charles) of Maria & George's as the house was on Adams St.
Looking forward to hearing from you, lots to discuss.
Anne
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pedlar
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, Anne,
Thanks for coming back to me so promptly. I've been on tenterhooks since you responded to my Thomas Pedley request...!
So, let's clarify a few things for you. My dad was Grandad William Pedley's son, James, b. 1907. (I, myself, was born in December 1928 - which makes me something of a "silver-surfer..."!)
Samuel is - as you suggested in your last post - the confusing one, because we don't know whether he was Thomas' son, or his daughter, Emma's...
I suppose the answer would be to try for a birth certificate - although I wonder what happens if a couple claim to the registrar of the day that a child was theirs, when he wasn't!
You are perfectly correct regarding my grandad being the son of George and Maria. - George being the son of Thomas and Eliza. Emma was, in fact, George's sister. Whether Samuel was George's half-brother (?) or George's nephew, we have yet to ascertain...
I have checked the 1851 census and I see - as you say - that my Gt. Grandad, George and your Gt. Grandad, William, were brothers. So, I take it that my grandad, William, and a child of YOUR gt.grandad, were cousins...? Watch out! Now it starts to get confusing...!
Now then, since - as I told you in my last post - I am still trying to work out this "so many times removed" business, I'll leave it to your 10 years experience to work out "how many times removed" cousins WE are...!
Thank you for the Alfred and Fanny Read info.
As regards your query regarding the Pedley fire, yes the fire in 1927 was the tragedy suffered by my grandad's brother Charles, who - as you probably know - lost all of his family except one, Thomas, who survived to old age.
I'm glad you mentioned Adams Street. The Pedleys seemed to own that particular street, one way or another. In fact, I grew up in Adams Street, only leaving it for a couple of years when I was called up for National Service...
I suspect, Anne, that much is going to pass between us in the next few weeks (?) months (?) years (?)
I look forward to your next post.
With regards,
Jim Pedley
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Avandel
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Jim
I'm still slightly confused about where Samuel fits in, are you looking at all siblings in all generations or just your direct line at the moment?
Here's my direct line,
Anne
Daisy SALT, 1916
Alice PEDLEY, 1881
William PEDLEY, 1838
Thomas PEDLEY, 1812
William PEDLEY, ?
Yours are:
James
James, 1907
William, 1881-02 ?
George, 1850
Thomas, 1812
William, ?
Am I correct with yours? If so then William & Alice were cousins & we are 3rd cousins. Not removed in any way because we are of the same generation.
As Samuel did not really figure into your direct line, obtaining a birth cert would only, possibly clarify who's son he was. They may not have falsified the cert but only showed this union on the census. And keep in mind that enumerators often made mistakes.
You do know that your William also had a brother Samuel?
Thank you for clarifying the family in the fire were from your side, I thought that Charles was George & Maria's son. Have you been to the gravesite? They have a huge headstone.
Do you know how we exchange our actual email addresses without them showing up on the chat? I have things I could email as attachments but don't want them showing up on this site.
Well, that's all for now, talk to you soon,
Cousin Anne
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pedlar
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, again, Anne,
Would you forgive me if I take a while to sort out your latest information. As I have already informed you, I am a "newbie" and (my wife swears) "as thick as two planks of wood..." If you don't know what that means in Canadian lingo, it means "brainless"!
But - seriously - I have to assume, at the moment, that your direct line starts with your mother - Daisy Salt? First question: I take it Daisy is a Pedley who married a Salt?
I can't check details because, here in the UK, latest census release is 1911 and you indicate Daisy as being born in 1916.
These queries of mine are probably basic to yourself, but I am still groping and have made mistakes in the past, so, if you would bear with me, I'm hoping we can progress a little more...
With regard to Samuel, I do not have a birth certificate but I have discovered a registration of the death of a Samuel Pedley in 1901. If it is the Samuel who was recorded on the 1871 Census as being aged 5, then the death would have occured at the age of 34 - which it is recorded as such. I do not have further details for the reason I have outlined in the following paragtraph. But it might be a good idea if - in this instance - I sent off for a death certificate to see who was present at the death.
Incidentally, Anne, I am only tracing ancestors in direct line at the moment. I had decided to stick to the one line for starters to save things becoming a little complex for my inexperience to cope with!
Your direct line appears to be correct with mine and my grandad William's birthdate is, in fact, 1882.
But I am fascinated by the question-mark after the William item prior to 1812. I have been chasing after Thomas' and Eliza's parentage for months, and now you have indicated a "William" followed by a question-mark!
I wonder if you would be kind enough to explain to me the significance of the "William?" item? And, yes. I do know of my grandad's brother, Samuel. He is noted on my census of 1871.
I have already started investigating how we can exchange email addresses...
With regards - and I do like the sound of
Cousin Jim
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trish1120
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3563
My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
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Hi Jim,
As you and your new cousin have made 3+ postings you can use the Rootschat personal message system now.
Just click on the user name to left of page and access to this will come up.
You can then exchange email addresses.
I have been enjoying reading this thread and wish you both luck.
Cheers,
Trish
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All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND) |
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pedlar
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks, Trish,
You'll never know how much I, myself, enjoyed this particular contact - especially after chasing after Thomas Pedley for such a long time. Now, there appears to be some little possibility...
However, it appears that there is, coming up, family business that may be of a more "private" nature, so I guess I and Avandel have to go "personal".
Sorry.
Regards,
Jim
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