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Topic: James HORNZEE baptism c 1816 (Read 458 times)
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taylorwallace
RootsChat Member
Posts: 147
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have got Mary Ann Trappitts baptism and her parents marriage but not her father's (David) baptism which I think must have been at one of the parishes in East London not on IGI.
When LMA re-opens after stocktaking , I will look at the two St. Leonards baptisms to see if there are any clues there. Any deaths around same time of John or Thomas or Mary Ann or even more baptisms not on IGI. The 1851 reference to him being born in Stepney is the only one I have and he could have been baptised at St. Leonards too as it is not a million miles away. I have no indication that there were names other than James; there is a Robert Hornzee in 1861 Bethnal Green but dont know if he is related; he seems equally obscure as cant find him anywhere else either! The use of Hornsey in later years doesnt help.
Do appreciate your suggestions.
taylor wallace
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louisa maud
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1410
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1862 Esther HORNZEE married George Herman, father Thomas occup a Cooper same as James father on his marriage to Mary Ann Trappitt.
There is Esther Hornsey in St Geo in East Workhouse on 1841.
Here is something intersting
1851 30 Baken Terr Stepney
Written as
Thomas Hornza aged 65 born St Geo in East COOPER
Ann 50 Rotherhithe
Thomas 16 St Geo in East
LM
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukGarner, Marylebone, Paddington, Northolt, Ilford Garner, Devon Garner New Zealand Parkinson St Pancras, Lethbridge, Paddington, Slough Jenkins Marylebone, Paddington Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington Tindal Marylebone, Paddington Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London Southam Marylebone, Paddington, Bragg Lambeth, 1800's Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent, Canada (Toronto) Coveney, Kent, Lambeth Sondes, Kent |
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taylorwallace
RootsChat Member
Posts: 147
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes: that is why I think Thomas may have married twice, first to Mary Ann and then to Ann . That Thomas Hornza jnr on the 1851 was born in 1833 but not christened at St G/east until 1839; I have a copy. I posted something on the surrey rootschat in relation to this because of the Rotherhithe mention. I think Thomas snr was only 18 or 19 when he married in 1809; this rules out him marrying someone not born till 1801 so I think Mary Ann Tomkins and Ann are two different people. perhaps the Thomas from St. Leonards died in infancy and his mother, Mary Ann, at around the same time.
The Esther reference is a new lead; thanks
taylor wallace
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louisa maud
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1410
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I feel crossed eyed trying to help you Taylor, I am giving up this evening, I do wonder if there are more James than we have looked at, it is a real shame about the change of spelling as it does hamper research. I found a Thomas on 1841 that is unreadable and I have tried to enlist help to decipher it, how the person transcribing it read it I do not know
Good Luck
LM
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukGarner, Marylebone, Paddington, Northolt, Ilford Garner, Devon Garner New Zealand Parkinson St Pancras, Lethbridge, Paddington, Slough Jenkins Marylebone, Paddington Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington Tindal Marylebone, Paddington Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London Southam Marylebone, Paddington, Bragg Lambeth, 1800's Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent, Canada (Toronto) Coveney, Kent, Lambeth Sondes, Kent |
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taylorwallace
RootsChat Member
Posts: 147
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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LM;
Can you give me the reference for Esther Hornsey's marriage in 1862 to George Herman which you referred to in recent post ,as I cannot find it on Free bmd or IGI. Is it a rogue spelling? Many thanks
taylor wallace
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taylorwallace
RootsChat Member
Posts: 147
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks; it must have been the Hermon rather than Herman that fooled me.
taylorwallace
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louisa maud
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1410
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I think you will find it is either way, looks like her death in 1907 aged 81, d of b 1826 Mile End,
1881 she has 2 daughters, do you have the 1881?
LM
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukGarner, Marylebone, Paddington, Northolt, Ilford Garner, Devon Garner New Zealand Parkinson St Pancras, Lethbridge, Paddington, Slough Jenkins Marylebone, Paddington Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington Tindal Marylebone, Paddington Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London Southam Marylebone, Paddington, Bragg Lambeth, 1800's Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent, Canada (Toronto) Coveney, Kent, Lambeth Sondes, Kent |
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taylorwallace
RootsChat Member
Posts: 147
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks; I have found her on 1881; looks as though George died in Poplar in 1879.
taylorwallace
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louisa maud
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1410
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Seems this whole family evaded the census man, can't find Esther or George on 1871
1891 RG12/287 142 39
371 Cable St
Esther HARMAN head wid 65 born St Geo in East
Alice Reader daUR 27 ST Geo in East
Fredk g/son 5 St Geo in East
LM
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukGarner, Marylebone, Paddington, Northolt, Ilford Garner, Devon Garner New Zealand Parkinson St Pancras, Lethbridge, Paddington, Slough Jenkins Marylebone, Paddington Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington Tindal Marylebone, Paddington Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London Southam Marylebone, Paddington, Bragg Lambeth, 1800's Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent, Canada (Toronto) Coveney, Kent, Lambeth Sondes, Kent |
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taylorwallace
RootsChat Member
Posts: 147
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes; found this too. Thanks for all your help. I will hope to get further with the Rotherhithe bit and the second marriage of Thomas to Ann, when LMA re-opens. I am wondering whether children were baptised in the workhouse by visiting incumbents as the Hornzees seem to have spent various periods in residence there....Will see if there are any admission/discharge records remaining for St. G/East workhouse..
taylor wallace
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taylorwallace
RootsChat Member
Posts: 147
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Maria Ann probably was not telling the truth at her marriage! She is not on the 1851 census but her sisters Ellen, Emma (and a Mary that I have never been able to find) are.
I have Maria Ann's birth cert 7/9/1852 to James Hornzee (general dealer) and Mary Ann nee Trappitt. Address 8 Woods Building Shoreditch Hollywell/Moorfields.
Does this help?
I know Ellen was a minor on marriage in 1862 - should there be some form of parental consent somewhere? Marriage was by banns at Bethnal Gn parish church (St. Matthews?)
Sister, Emma, married 10 years later (Shadwell)to a Henry Tice aged 22, a coachman. His father is shown as Richard Tice, a cabman but the Tice family seem as elusive as the Hornzees!!!
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taylorwallace
RootsChat Member
Posts: 147
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Since my last post I have found a Mary Ann Hornzee who died in Bethnal Green in 1900 aged "47". I suspect that she could be the "missing" daughter Mary on the 1851 census. There are 2 Mary Ann Hornzees born in Bethnal Gn in 1845 so hopefully one might be to James and Mary Ann?!
taylorwallace
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louisa maud
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1410
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according to the sources I have here Woods Buildings doesn't seem to exist on 1861, foiled again, unless anyone else knows better
LM
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukGarner, Marylebone, Paddington, Northolt, Ilford Garner, Devon Garner New Zealand Parkinson St Pancras, Lethbridge, Paddington, Slough Jenkins Marylebone, Paddington Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington Tindal Marylebone, Paddington Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London Southam Marylebone, Paddington, Bragg Lambeth, 1800's Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent, Canada (Toronto) Coveney, Kent, Lambeth Sondes, Kent |
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louisa maud
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1410
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1891 Russia Lane BNG
RG12/271 F 62 P4
Joseph Hornzee 32 born St Georges
Mary Ann 34 BNG
Joseph 11
Frederick 9
Albert 8
William 4
All siblings born Bethnal Green
1901 same address but Joseph is a "w", so the Mary Ann whose death you found is not Nee Hornzee, back to the drawing board Taylor !!
LM
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukGarner, Marylebone, Paddington, Northolt, Ilford Garner, Devon Garner New Zealand Parkinson St Pancras, Lethbridge, Paddington, Slough Jenkins Marylebone, Paddington Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington Tindal Marylebone, Paddington Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London Southam Marylebone, Paddington, Bragg Lambeth, 1800's Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent, Canada (Toronto) Coveney, Kent, Lambeth Sondes, Kent |
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taylorwallace
RootsChat Member
Posts: 147
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Oh dear; I think I will still get the birth cert for Mary Ann Hornzee b 1845 in BG. Is there any indication which of the two to go for as neither on IGI. Suppose I could always do the reference checking thing with GRO
taylor wallace
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