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Topic: 76 Warwick Street, Toxteth Park (Read 1033 times)
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Wilbs
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 73
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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My family (Wilberforce) lived at 76 Warwick Street Toxteth Park for at least 10 years (on 1901 & 1911 censuses)
How can I find out who lived there in earlier years? I know that a Thomas Hughes was buried in Toxteth Park Cemetery in 1890 & this was his final address.
How do I find out if my family owned the house or were tenants? Were property titles issued in the late 1800s and if so is it possible to get a copy on-line.
The family has us stumped so now we're trying to trace the house's history for clues.
Thank you
Wilbs
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velpremus
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 54
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1891 Census:
Occupant of 76 Warwick Street:
POPE, John Head Married M 46 1845 Shoe Maker
1881:
GRIBBIN, John Head Married M 40 1841 General Porter
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caribou
RootsChat Member
Posts: 157
The wife's G-grandmother on her 90th birthday
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1871
Head Catherine Lyons 29 Widow Shoe Maker, b Ireland.
Address is shown as Toxteth Park, West Derby.
1861 multiple families listed at same address
Head James Lyons 40 Shoemaker, b Ireland, wife Catherine 28 b Ireland, daughter Annie 3
Head William Pollock 28 Cooper b Ireland, wife Ann b Ireland daughter Elizabeth 3
Head Martin McFarlane 28 Dock Labourer b Wallasey, wife Kelly b Ireland, children Edward 9, Mary A 6, John 3
Bob.
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Wilbs
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 73
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you velpremus and Bob.
Have you any idea of the size of the property. I always thought that it was a typical 2 up, 2 down terrace, but in 1861 it looks like 6 adults and 5 children lived there. Very cosy!
Could it have been a larger, boarding house? Shoe makers appear to be very attracted to the house.
Have you any idea how I can find out who actually owned the house?
Thanks
Wilbs
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Wilbs
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 73
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Looking at the census details from above, it's definitely shoe maker paradise. Even the 1861 boarder (Matthew Broderick) is a shoe maker.
It sounds more and more like a shoe shop with accommodation above or out back, or they traded from a front room.
Is there any way to tell or does some one know of any photographs that exist of Warwick Street from that period?
Thank you
Wilbs
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purplekat
RootsChat Member
Posts: 156
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Wilbs
I found your post very interesting as my g grandfather was a milk dealer and lived at 64 Warwick St, Toxteth Park, for at least 10 years, (1881,1891). In 1891 most of the the houses from 48 to 70 are also shops, my g grandfather's residence is described as a dairy and the other houses include a grocers shop, a licenced victullers,(sorry about spelling!), a butchers, my g grandfather appears to occupy nos 62 and 64 in 1891 and nos 68-70 seems to be a combined clothing shop and pawnbrokers. It looks as though the street made up of business premises at this time.
Sorry I don't have any photos of the area.
Jean 
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Wilbs
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 73
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you all, especially gastonite for posting the request. I love your "baby" photo!
Hi Jean - the "licensed victualer" in your email jumped out as the family's father claimed to be of that trade and we haven't been able to find any trace of him. He could also have been linked to the pub found by Shaun.
Now that I have the earlier censuses for Warwick Road, I'll study each one carefully and hopefully spot a relative
Best wishes
Wilbs.
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purplekat
RootsChat Member
Posts: 156
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Wilbs
I looked at the name for the licensed victualer in the 1891 census but the writing is so appalling it's difficult to read, I don't think it's Wilberforce though, I tried, unsucessfully, to attach the name to this post.
Also it may be worth having a look at the lancashire directories for the late 19th century at
http://historicaldirectories.org
I found my g grandfather's business was advertised in Kelly's and Gore's Lancashire directories.
Jean
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ainslie
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 393
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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In 1909 the licensee of 72/4 Warwick Street was James Brown, who managed it for Robert Cain & Sons [not the current Cains Brewery but the original, which joined with Walkers]. No name is given in the official 'Licensing Report Book'. There were two doors in Warwick St and two in Darnley St, 736 sq feet of drinking space, 9 rooms for domestic use. There were two licensees between 1900 and 1909.
There were other pubs in Warwick Street: No. 2 ('Quarantine Hotel" !), 19, 24, 44, 56/8 and 123 - keen competition in a closely populated area - then.
Liverpool Record Office might have a photo.
A
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« Last Edit: Saturday 07 November 09 09:16 UTC (UK) by ainslie »
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km1971
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2732
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Wilbs
Column 7 on the 1901 Census lists the number of rooms if less than five. Nothing has been added, so the house had five or more rooms.
In 1891 the figure 4 is crossed out and 6 added. So by the standards of the day they were big houses. Other census may give some more clues.
Ken
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Wilbs
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 73
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you all for your replies.
I suppose the main thing that I’m trying to establish is the financial situation of the two sisters. Ida Wilberforce (1841-1911) never married, but her younger sister Grace (1854-1928) was married to John Burns, ships cook, for a short period (1897 to about 1910)
In the 1891 census their occupations were listed as Retired Relief Stamper & Confectioner. 1901 has Bookkeeper & Laundress and in 1911 Grace and her daughter Mary Ida Burns were Laundresses. Ages, marriage status, and place of birth changes on every census so that doesn’t help.
In the 1891-1901-1911 censuses just the sisters and daughter are inhabiting 76 Warwick Street with no signs of any boarders, If we accept that 76 Warwick Street was larger than the average house, and possibly a shop, then how did two orphaned spinster ladies, with low paying employment possible afford the property. If they rented rooms, I would expect to see other families listed on the censuses (like in 1861).
Maybe the shop was actually a laundry and Grace ran a successful business from there. I always imagined her as being poor and taking in washing to make ends meet, but if in 1901-1911 the mother & daughter were running a business (with Ida doing the bookkeeping) then perhaps they were better off than I thought.
The only other earlier address I have for the sisters is 16 Carnarvon Street in Kirkdale and they were there in 1889. Before that date I can’t find any record of the family at all. Every document that we can find lists the sisters’ father as Herbert Wilberforce, licensed victualer, deceased. We have no idea when he died but it was before Grace’s marriage in 1897.
Wilbs
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Wilbs
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 73
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Shaun - thank you, thank you, thank you.
That's her!
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