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Topic: Edith BELL born Torquay 1877 (Read 149 times)
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castaway
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
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I have cross posted this in Nottinghamshire as they seem to have moved around so much which puzzles me and what was Charlotte doing having babies in Torquay, with no husband around?!I find this odd; my great grandfather was born at the Manvers arms Radcliffe (sometimes spelt Ratcliffe) though the family were shown to be innkeepers his father was a journey man bricklayer. Was it not possible to support a family on a inns income?
Tom B c 1844 married Charlotte Oxley in 1867, they moved to Buxton? Surrey where they had 2 children Percy and Walter. Next he appears on the 1871 census lodging in Tattenhall Cheshire while his wife with 2 very small children is in Lazonby Cumberland.
She has a daughter, Maude in Finchley in 1873.
1877 she had Edith in Torquay
in 1879/80 I found her in Aston Birmingham where my grandfather Henry was born 22/9/1879 and his sister Alice, her mother in law, Toms mother Elizabeth declared the birth... so Tom was not there?
Next Tom; husband, reappears 1881 census and they are all together in Tottenham, with Percy 12, Walter 10, Edith 4 , meanwhile Maude ( in 1881 was living wither her maternal grandmother Jane Oxley in Finchley. In 1891 Charlotte is in Finchley shown as widowed.
Is this not strange for husbands to leave their families for such long periods, and why were they moving all over the place and children staying with grandparents at such a young age?
Sorry to be long winded but they seem to be moving so much and so separate for so many years it makes me wonder what musty have been going on?
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Logged
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Snell Chulmleigh,Hatherleigh,Bampton London.
Bell Nottingham, Clevedon, London, cumberland
Oxley London
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cheshiremog
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1471
Minnie ~ frightened a mouse right under her chair!
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Hi Castaway
Am just starting to look at this one - what a very interesting family you have here.
First thing I notice is that on the 1891 I do not think Charlotte is widowed _ I think it looks like a squiggly M for married - look higher up the page, another lady is listed as widowed and it is very clearly marked as 'wid' - so that means Tom is still alive in 1891.
Also on the 1881 Tom Bell's occupation is 'foreman bricklayer' - so he was a good experienced bricklayer, probably heading a team and his services may have been in great demand up and down the country. The late Victorian era was a time of great development - for instance many of the Victorian seaside resorts were expanding rapidly, particularly with the advent of the railways, making seaside day trips a possibility for the masses - I expect there was a lot of building going on in Torquay as the resort expanded and he perhaps worked there for a while. Just a couple of observations - will keep looking and may be able to add something later.
For the child's birth registered by Tom's mother in law - maybe Tom was just working away as a bricklayer?
Mog
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Cheshire - TAYLOR, HEAPY, KNOWLES, HAMPSON, CLAYTON, STONIER, PRITCHARD, NADIN, GALLIMORE
Staffs - HEAPY
Devon - CLIFT, VITTERY, TRIST, MOLLOY, COBLEY, LEAR, GUILFOYLE, BICKFORD, EPPS, BEAZLEY, DARKE, LANG, QUANT, BLANKENSHIP
Devon & Cornwall - CLIFT, LARK
Somerset -Frome -HEAPY
Derbys/Notts- COCKAYNE, PHEASEY, KNOWLES
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cheshiremog
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1471
Minnie ~ frightened a mouse right under her chair!
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Also on the 1891 on the next page there is:-
Rose born about 1882 London
Charles born about 1884 London
plus Jane Oxley aunt
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Cheshire - TAYLOR, HEAPY, KNOWLES, HAMPSON, CLAYTON, STONIER, PRITCHARD, NADIN, GALLIMORE
Staffs - HEAPY
Devon - CLIFT, VITTERY, TRIST, MOLLOY, COBLEY, LEAR, GUILFOYLE, BICKFORD, EPPS, BEAZLEY, DARKE, LANG, QUANT, BLANKENSHIP
Devon & Cornwall - CLIFT, LARK
Somerset -Frome -HEAPY
Derbys/Notts- COCKAYNE, PHEASEY, KNOWLES
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cheshiremog
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1471
Minnie ~ frightened a mouse right under her chair!
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On the 1871 Tom Bell is lodging at Tattenhall? Cheshire - he is Bricksetter
His wife Charlotte is in Lazenby Cumbria - and listed as a sub-contractors wife - with children Percy Tom Bell aged 1 (probably nearly 2) and Walter Oxley Bell aged 11 mos.
Just looks to me like Tom is working and travelling and Charlotte is trying to be with him just as much as she can - but if not possible, she stays behind, maybe wherever Tom's last job was. As for daughter Maude maybe due to health reasons she could not keep trekking around the country with the rest of the family - or maybe could not settle to such a life. Or maybe she was going to be apprenticed to her grandma who ran a butchers shop?
By 1901 Charlotte is widowed by now. Son Percy is a ship's butcher - interesting! Grandma Oxley was also a butcher or perhaps continued her husband's profession on. And son Henry is a manager at some kind of works?
I have not found the Bell family when they ran the inn but I would say livings were pretty slender then, whatever your occupation and they tried to make every shilling they could, so anyone of adult age or younger who could earn a wage doing another trade would have done so, because I do not think many wages stretcehd much beyond putting a shirt on your back and feeding yourself. They really did work to live just for the basic needs of life, shelter, warmth, clothing and food.
Hope that helps
Mog
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Cheshire - TAYLOR, HEAPY, KNOWLES, HAMPSON, CLAYTON, STONIER, PRITCHARD, NADIN, GALLIMORE
Staffs - HEAPY
Devon - CLIFT, VITTERY, TRIST, MOLLOY, COBLEY, LEAR, GUILFOYLE, BICKFORD, EPPS, BEAZLEY, DARKE, LANG, QUANT, BLANKENSHIP
Devon & Cornwall - CLIFT, LARK
Somerset -Frome -HEAPY
Derbys/Notts- COCKAYNE, PHEASEY, KNOWLES
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cheshiremog
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1471
Minnie ~ frightened a mouse right under her chair!
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Hi
Just a couple more comments - sorry have broken it down in bits as you asked a whole lot of questions all at once.
Having babies in Torquay with no husband around - I suspect both Charlotte & Tom were in Torquay together due to his work and Charlotte had a baby there in 1877. Tom's work then took him to Aston.
Journey man - means time served the right to demand a rate of pay by the day - it does not mean traveller (although he did actually travel to get work) You perhaps know this anyway.
What was going on ? I think they were a very industrious family, good trades people determined to make a living.
Mog
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Cheshire - TAYLOR, HEAPY, KNOWLES, HAMPSON, CLAYTON, STONIER, PRITCHARD, NADIN, GALLIMORE
Staffs - HEAPY
Devon - CLIFT, VITTERY, TRIST, MOLLOY, COBLEY, LEAR, GUILFOYLE, BICKFORD, EPPS, BEAZLEY, DARKE, LANG, QUANT, BLANKENSHIP
Devon & Cornwall - CLIFT, LARK
Somerset -Frome -HEAPY
Derbys/Notts- COCKAYNE, PHEASEY, KNOWLES
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castaway
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
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Thanks, yes I kind of think that he was travelling building, his father was a builder too. Its these question marks that make it all the more interesting, and curious.
AH M not wid.. yes makes sense.. perfect marriage with no husband under your feet! Not relevant that she is shown as head of household?
She is shown there as Drep master anyone know what that is?!
So where is Tom in 1891, I couldn't find him.
(Yes I have page 2, Henry then 11 is my grandfather)
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Snell Chulmleigh,Hatherleigh,Bampton London.
Bell Nottingham, Clevedon, London, cumberland
Oxley London
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castaway
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
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sorry think we cross posted, yes sorry to bombard with so many questions. My grandfather Henry Bell,didn't seem to have any family left, or that he spoke to when he died in 1938, only a sister. My grandmother Eleanor Bell nee Snell didn't talk to half her family, one of her sisters went to Argentina married to a German and the other worked for the UN in Geneva, there is a whole part of our family that just vanished off the radar and I got rather excited finding this board this morning!
It would be wonderful to find someone else following their trail!
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Logged
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Snell Chulmleigh,Hatherleigh,Bampton London.
Bell Nottingham, Clevedon, London, cumberland
Oxley London
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cheshiremog
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1471
Minnie ~ frightened a mouse right under her chair!
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Drep maker - will be dress maker - it is the old double s that looks like a p
I did notice on one or two of the census that the females were dress makers.
Tom Bell on the 1891 - no I can't find him either - I tried birth just Nottingham and looked at many possible surname mispellings - with no joy - I suspect he is out there lodging somewhere. Might be worth posting this specific question again - there are some very clever rootschatters who will find him if he is there. Always a good idea to break questions down into bite size chunks if you can.
As for your family who moved abroad - try the emigration/immigration boards on the site - I have had a lot of help from RC on ancestors who went to Canada.
Also - nearly forgot to say - my hubby thinks Tom Bell may have been a bricklayer for the railways - travelling and building railway stations - he comes up with these obtuse ideas and is so often right.
Keep posting on RC you will get a lot of help here.
Very interesting family - really make you think. So sorry to hear in later life they perhaps became estranged.
Hope you get some good responses from the Nottingham board too
I live in Notts but was born in Torquay.
So I loved to see the great 'middle name' tradition which I believe is a very West Country tradition of calling Walter born 1871 - Walter OXLEY Bell
taking his mother's maiden name
In my Devon tree the middle name is a very prevalent tradition.
Mog
Mog
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Cheshire - TAYLOR, HEAPY, KNOWLES, HAMPSON, CLAYTON, STONIER, PRITCHARD, NADIN, GALLIMORE
Staffs - HEAPY
Devon - CLIFT, VITTERY, TRIST, MOLLOY, COBLEY, LEAR, GUILFOYLE, BICKFORD, EPPS, BEAZLEY, DARKE, LANG, QUANT, BLANKENSHIP
Devon & Cornwall - CLIFT, LARK
Somerset -Frome -HEAPY
Derbys/Notts- COCKAYNE, PHEASEY, KNOWLES
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castaway
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
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Mog, maybe you help , is this my Tom?!
Today, just playing about, pop! there he seems to be on the 1891 census! but city is shown as Durham and county is shown as Lancaster?! Not sure how to read this!
I am not sure when they show DOB then city Durham if they mean place of birth which in fact was Devon, so maybe this is why I couldn't find him it was mis transcribed?
I can see Thomas Bell Born abt 1844 shown as residence Lancashire , Durham city as place of birth? His spouse is shown as Charlotte which is correct... though I have her living in Finchley London in 1891, with their daughters Maude Edith and Alice and son Walter.... is this just a strange co incidence? Can anyone check for me?
Thanks in advance.
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Snell Chulmleigh,Hatherleigh,Bampton London.
Bell Nottingham, Clevedon, London, cumberland
Oxley London
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