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Topic: Michael and Frances Gabriel of London (1841 to 1871 censuses) (Read 193 times)
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JustinL
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1023
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Pigot’s Directory of 1836 records Michael Gabriel, clothes salesman of 14 & 20 Monmouth St., WC.
However, I am looking for two men, I think (possibly uncle and nephew), named Michael Gabriel, both of whom may have had wives named Frances.
I have no record of this couple (or couples) in the 1841 census.
Supposedly, the 1851 census of 59 Herbert St. Hoxton (HO 107/1535 162) records Michael Gabriel, a 60 year-old china agent, with wife Frances and son Lewis.
In 1861, there was reportedly a Michael Gabriel with his wife Frances, in Park Cottage, Brixton. They had a visitor named Joshua Myers Gabriel, b. Australia.
During the 1860s, one or both of them moved to 9 Upper Woburn Place in Bloomsbury and died there on 3 Oct 1875 ‘in his 69th year’.
Was this one and the same couple, or do the ages, birthplaces and occupations suggest that there were two distinct couples?
I would really appreciate it if SKS could re-check the censuses for period 1841 to 1871 and help resolve the confusion.
Many thanks, Justin
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3602
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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If this is a case of 2 couples, they're very good at avoiding the census.
the 1861 address is 36 Upper Tulse Hill ref RG9/364 folio 42 pg 12 - next to Park Cottage.
The one who died in 1875
1871 9 Upper Woburn Place RG10/212 folio 110 pg 71
Michael Gabriel head widower 62 gentleman
Ester Cohen sister widow 55
Frances Gabriel sister unm 50
all born City of London
plus 2 servants
death regs
Michael Gabriel 68 dec qtr 1875 Pancras vol 1b pg 24
Frances Gabriel 71 dec qtr 1869 Pancras vol 1b pg 24
this would appear to be Est(h)er's marriage
Esther Gabriel march qtr 1845 London vol 2 pg 168 with Jacob Cohen the only other on the page
In which case a possible from 1841?
Black Prince Court, Newington, Surrey HO107/1063/6 folio 18 pg 29
Levy Gabriel 50 tailor
Elizabeth 28
Esther 26
Frances 20
Lewis Lieven 5
all not born in county except Lewis
no other death regs showing up for Michael & Frances
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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JustinL
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1023
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Thank you.
Was Michael aged 52 in the 1861 census of 36 Upper Tulse Hill? Was an occupation recorded?
If there is only one Michael and he was born in 1808/09, rather than 1791, then my fellow researcherrs and I have concluded that Levy was his father. Lewis Levien was appointed an executor in Michael's will of 1874.
Therein lies the problem. The 1851 census indicates the earlier birthdate, as would be expected if Michael had fathered a son in 1822.
Justin
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3602
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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1861 Upper Tulse Hill, Lambeth RG9/364 folio 42 pg 12
Michael Gabriel head mar 53 merchant b. England
Frances wife 60 b. England
Joshua Myers Gabriel visitor 6 b. Hobart Town
plus 2 servants
The ages on the 1851 are a puzzle. Also, can't see son Lewis after that. There's another Lewis a year younger who shows up, but he's also on the 1851, a tailor, and is the son of a Martha Gabriel.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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JustinL
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1023
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Thanks again.
Could it be a simple mis-reading of the age on the 1851 census? Are you able to check the original?
The younger Lewis Gabriel, whose father was probably Montague, was either a first or second cousin of the one that disappeared.
This family and the somehow-related Levien family are driving us mad!!!
Justin
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3602
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes, I have checked the originals and transcribed this info from them. The 1851 does indeed give Michael as 60 and Frances as 57. Having said that, the originals from 1851 are the enumerators' books copied from what the householders wrote, so there is room for error.
Could the missing Lewis have gone to Tasmania? The Australia board may be able to help you find the birth of Joshua Myer Gabriel.
By the way, all census info given here should be taken from the originals. Anyone who copies the transcription from, for example, Ancestry's index, would be infringing copyright.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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JustinL
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1023
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Thank you very much fory our help.
It certainly is possible that Lewis went out to Tasmania, or elsewhere in Australia.
Several of my fellow researchers are from Australia and they have been unable to find any birth record for Joshua.
I take it there is no sign of Michael, Frances and Lewis in 1841.
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3602
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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couldn't find them on the 1841 and I tried Ancestry and FMP as their indexing can differ.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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JustinL
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1023
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Thanks for trying. What a family, I'm glad it isn't mine.
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winston
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2766
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HI
Not sure if this has been noted on the other 'long thread' but in the 1841 I found living on Monmouth Street at this ref was one Hester Gabriel bn circa 1821
For Ref Michael Gabriel was also shown as living at Monmouth Street in the 1840 Postal directory for London
RG number: HO107
Piece 673:
Book/Folio:18/16
Page: 24
Wendy
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Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBlakeley in Batley West Yorks Turner in Hanging Heaton West Yorkshire Dann last known area Soothill West Yorks Hirst in Hanging heaton W Yorks Moss in Morley and Leeds Parker in Morley W Yorks Parker in Hull E Yorks Tilburns in Morley W Yorks |
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JustinL
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1023
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Hello Wendy,
That is an interesting find. The 'other' thread is very hard to sift through, but I do not recall seeing her either.
Michael, the clothier, seems to have expanded his business to two premises 46 Broad Street and 50 Chiswell Street by 1841.
Why would Michael abandon a seemingly prosperous business and move to Hoxton? I'm beginning to think that there were two such men after all.
Justin
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DianeD
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Justin
I started the thread on the other site looking for the Levien-Thompson connection, would be glad of any help you can give!
D
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JustinL
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1023
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Hello Diane,
Welcome to rootschat!
Sorry to have to disappoint you, but I have already been feeding information to your FTF thread via Naomi.
Naomi, Maureen and I have been bouncing emails around (waiting for your return from holiday?), but we have not really moved any further forward. All very frustrating!
We all agree that you will probably have to obtain some more BMD certs and wills. A few early Christmas presents to yourself.
Justin
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DianeD
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Realised you had to be the missing JL. Let's hope Michael's will comes soon.
Di
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