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Topic: St John Newcastle (Read 1029 times)
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erin31
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 62
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi and thank you both once again for your offers of help.
If Im honest the real problem lies not with Thomas but with my 2 x great grandfather.
He was called John Davison and born Widdrington around 1829.
I have his marriage certificate to his wife Elizabeth Hogg and this gives his father as William Davison husband man.
Now after much research I suspect John may be the son of William and Ann Davison.
I gained this from baptism records and also census records.
In 1841 I think John was living at Red House Southwick, Durham with a family called Stephenson. He did in fact return here in later years to farm himself.
In 1851 I think he may of been at Bearl Stocksfield. This John has his place of birth as Wallington and lives with his widowed father, sister Elizabeth born Felton and brother Alexander Aaron born Stanington.
I think this may be the correct John because in 1861 John (giving his place of birth as Widdrington) is living in Walbottle with his wife and who should I find living close by but Alexander and his sister Elizabeth born Felton.
By 1871 Alexander Aaron has married and moved away and Elizabeth born Felton is still in Walbottle but living with John and his family.
I think this sort of points to John being Elizabeth's brother.
I have located Elizabeth in the 1841 census also living with her father William, mother ANN and brother Thomas born 1834.
The confusion arises as the owner of the bible believes that John Davison born Widdrington is the son of William Davison and Margaret Thistlewaite. The evidence for this points to the name John and date of birth 1829 being in the family bible and also the Red House Farm, Southwick connection.There is nothing that links John directly to Margaret as yet but I am sure time will tell.
There is a death certificate for Margaret and this gives her husband as William Davison occupation Miller and is signed by her son William Davison. I have indeed found a birth for a William son of William and Margaret. I have not been able to find a birth for John born Widdrington and being the son of Margaret and William.
In the family bible after the name Margaret there is a list of children but it does not state if these are her children. I wonder if they could be cousins?
The name Thistlewaite was gained from census records I have been told.
I have if I might add found baptisms for Elizabeth born Felton and Thomas born Morpeth but both are children of William and Ann.
This sounds so confusing but I have tried to explain it as clearly as I can.
I have been in contact with two others tracing this line and they also believed they had found John Davison living at Bearl in Stocksfield and that Wallington was an error that should of read Widdrington.
Any input would be very much appreciated!
Kind regards Kim
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evie
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2187
Barnaby
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Ok
One step at a time.
I believe you are correct for the parents of John Davison. The IGI has only one John Davison baptised in Widdrington that I could see so I checked the Bishop's Transcripts and on the 15th April 1827 John was baptised to parents William and Ann. William's occupation was husbandsman.
If you want to check it is page 78 for Widdrington, Northumberland.
I went up to 1831 and could see no more John Davisons.
Evie
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Booth, Hornsby, Northumberland & Durham Jackson, Northumberland & Durham Douthwaite, N Yorks & Durham Geldard, N Yorks Ward, Cheshire & W Yorks Swallow, Boid, W Yorks Kirby, Lowe, Studholme, Geary, Emery, Baldock census info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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erin31
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 62
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Oh wow, well that is good news. I was begining to think that I had been tracing the wrong line!
So it is possible that Thomas born 1834 was the son of William and Ann also and not Margaret?
I am not even sure that the owner of the bible has the correct Thomas. Again all information is coming from the bible and census.
If John is not the son of Margaret then it is possible Thomas is not either. Also I have been told Thomas was called Thomas James but I cannot find a baptism for Thomas or Thomas James to Margaret and William.
Thank so much for this Evie.
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evie
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2187
Barnaby
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Hi Kim
What is the reference for the 1841 census for Thomas, William and family. I cannot seem to see them please.
Evie
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Booth, Hornsby, Northumberland & Durham Jackson, Northumberland & Durham Douthwaite, N Yorks & Durham Geldard, N Yorks Ward, Cheshire & W Yorks Swallow, Boid, W Yorks Kirby, Lowe, Studholme, Geary, Emery, Baldock census info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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erin31
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 62
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Evie.
I am not sure which is actually the reference number (not very good at this am I) but I can give you the following .....
Class: Piece: 824. Book: 16.
Does that help?
Head of Household is William Davison born 1791 Stannington.
John was at that time living at Red House Farm Southwick Durham.
Piece: 299. Book: 9.
Head of Household is William Stephenson born 1791 Monkwearmouth.
I feel confident this is the correct John as I had previously found a sister Margaret for him and there is a Margaret of the same name living with him.
I hope this helps!
Many thanks Kim
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evie
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2187
Barnaby
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Hi Kim
Just been looking around, nothing concrete yet although I once again believe you are correct with the census of William Davison in 1841.
Has the bible owner said how there is a connection to the Red House Farm. The problem is John and Margaret are common names. However having said this you do have a point at him being your John if at a later date he returned to work there.
I wonder what Michael and Pat think about this?
I'll keep looking
Evie
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Booth, Hornsby, Northumberland & Durham Jackson, Northumberland & Durham Douthwaite, N Yorks & Durham Geldard, N Yorks Ward, Cheshire & W Yorks Swallow, Boid, W Yorks Kirby, Lowe, Studholme, Geary, Emery, Baldock census info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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erin31
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 62
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Evie.
The owner of the bible explained that after the name John someone had wrote Red House Farm but they had also wrote his date of birth and death so this could of been wrote by someone researching the tree.
The John in the bible I believe will be John Davison born Widdrington as they also have in the bible some memorial cards which match memorial cards I have for this family (from my own Davison family bible) but I just do not understand why they are so sure that John is the son of Margaret or who Margaret was.
They do have a death certificate for Margaret who died 1881 and it states her husband was William who was a Miller and her death was reported by her son William of Southwick, Sunderland but there are a great many Davison's in Southwick.
I also wonder about Thomas James Davison as his year of birth was approx 1834 and I have found John had a brother Thomas born the same year. He did not though have the middle name Thomas.
Now I did mention that we could find no trace of a marriage for Thomas and Mary Ann Hunter in 1865 and I was told she would not be surprised if they had never married but I don't understand how I can be told they are sure of the marriage 'as the date was in the bible' one day and the next day I am told that this information may be incorrect.
Why would someone put this information in the bible if it was incorrect?
Also if this marriage information is not the correct how can we surmise that the rest is?
I really feel that a lot of the information I have been given from the bible has been added by someone researching the family tree.
Kind regards Kim
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erin31
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 62
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Brilliant Michael.
Evie, Pat and yourself may just save me from going completely insane!
Kind regards
Kim
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Michael Dixon
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2786
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Kim..
I am not budging off the 1841 census till I get it straight in my mind !
The ref for the Davisons in Middle Duddo ( which lay within the Parish of Stannington) is Piece 824 Book 16 Folio 4 page 3 (explain numbering later)
For ages the census enumerator rounded down ages for those aged 15 and above to the nearest multiple of 5 yrs. ( So William could have been 74, 73, 72, 71 or 70 )
BUT the 1841 not does record any birth "places". It only states Y(es) or N(o) to the question whether born in this county ( in this case Northumberland)
So William may have been born in Stannington, but the 1841 census doe not state that- only that he was born in "this county" = Northumberland.
Ann age recorded as 50 was born in S (for Scotland)
1841 also does not record relationships within a household... but using other info e.g. church records, later censuses, we can normally figure out the relationships OK !
Michael
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Names.
GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
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MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
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DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND
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erin31
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 62
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Michael.
Does the 1841 not give his age as 50?
Now I had not picked up on this 'S' at all.
I have found possible birth records for the three children but only by taking their place of birth from the 1851 census.
Regards Kim
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Michael Dixon
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2786
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Kim,
Another look- under the mag glass- yes looks like 50, same as Scottish Ann, but note that ten years later on 1851 census he is recorded as 70, or have I misread that as well ?
Michael
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Names.
GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
-------------------------------------------------------------------
MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND
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erin31
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 62
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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No he is def 70 on the 1851.
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Michael Dixon
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2786
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John in Co Durham on 1841 census.
Red House, Southwick, within Parish of Monkwearmouth
William Stephenson- I see not born in County Durham.
Nor was 10 yr old John Davison born in Co Durham ( By 1841 your John Davison would have been ? older than 10, but the enumerator might have applied the rounding-down, as some did, even though instructions did not specify it !)
And a 15 yr old Margaret Davison, not born in Co Durham. Do you have info on her been a dtr of William/Ann ?
Michael
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Names.
GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
-------------------------------------------------------------------
MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND
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