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Topic: John DREDGE and Elizabeth STONE (Read 343 times)
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janeeliza999
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi.
I'm having a lot of trouble sorting part of my family out.
Below is what I have read on here, but the problem is that Moses Dredge has a son called John Dredge but he is married to a Caroline Penn. m 14 Jan 1850.
My John Dredge is married to Elizabeth Stone but I cant seem to find a to find his family as Moses Dredge keeps coming up. Any help would be great.
Jane
From FindMyPast
Wincanton
7 January 1837 John Dredge = Elizabeth Stone
From IGI
JOHN DREDGE died 22 April 1877
Parents: Moses Dredge and Anne Micholas or Nicholas
Married 7 January 1837, Wincanton,
Spouse: Elizabeth Stone
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« Last Edit: Saturday 07 November 09 06:37 UTC (UK) by krisesjoint »
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janeeliza999
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi. Why go to SOM?
John Dredge Born WILTS
Moses Dredge born WILTS
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nigelp
RootsChat Member
Posts: 211
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Hi Jane,
I am not sure what the problem is here. Perhaps you can explain in more detail.
From the IGI there is a John Dredge baptised in Downton, Wiltshire on 1 June 1817 (possibly born in Britford from the 1851 Census). He is identified as being the son of Moses Dredge and Anne Nicholas (or Micholas). This John appears to have married Elizabeth Stone in Wincanton, Somerset on 7 January 1837 and died on 22 April 1877 (GRO: 5a 130 Alderbury Jun 1877, age 60). James, the eldest son of John and Elizabeth in the 1851 Census is identified as having been born in Wincanton.
There are a lot of John Dredges in the 1851 Census including one born in Downton or Redlynch about 1821 and who married a Caroline Penn in Downton in January 1850 (GRO: 8 371 Alderbury Mar 1850).
Nigel
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Alcock (Ashill), Barber (Chilcompton), Breeze (Ovington), Carey (Salisbury and Warminster), Collacott (Combe Martin and Shebbear), Creamer (North Elmham), Goss (Bristol and Combe Martin), Musselwhite (Britford and Downton), Sparkes (North Elmham), Thorogood (Little Hallingbury), Turner (Codford, Salisbury and Warminster), Wakefield (Briston and Hindolveston)
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janeeliza999
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Nigel
From IGI
JOHN DREDGE died 22 April 1877
Parents: Moses Dredge and Anne Micholas or Nicholas
Married 7 January 1837, Wincanton,
Spouse: Elizabeth Stone
Moses Dredge does have a son John Dredge b 8 Jun 1817 m Caroline Penn 14 Jan 1850
As you can see above it says Elizabeth Stone as his wife.
My relation is John Dredge b 1818 who married Elizabeth Stone b 1817
There is no second marriage as my John Dredge was alive and married to Elizabeth Stone in the 1851 census.
They have 6 children, the first 2 born 1839 and 1841 Wincanton, 3 born 1843,1845 and 1848 Britford and the last 1857 in East Harnham
John Dredge Pedigree
Born 1817 Redlynch, Wiltshire, England
Married 14 JAN 1850 Downton, Salisbury, Wiltshire, England
Caroline Penn Pedigree
Born 1825 Charlton, , Wiltshire, England
Married 14 JAN 1850 Downton, Salisbury, Wiltshire, England
These people are not my relations, but he is the son of Moses Dredge.
It seems that, somehow, the two families have been combined wrongly.
It is easy to get the wrong people but going back from my Grandmothers birth year 1900 - Harry Dredge 1866 - Thomas S Dredge 1843 - John Dredge -1818.
That is where I come to a stop. His marriage is to Elizabeth Stone.
Thanks for your reply
Jane
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« Last Edit: Saturday 07 November 09 06:40 UTC (UK) by krisesjoint »
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nigelp
RootsChat Member
Posts: 211
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Hi Jane,
How do you know from the information you have provided that it is the John Dredge who married a Caroline Penn rather than Elizabeth Stone who had the father Moses? Have you seen the original entries for either marriage?
The 1851 Census does not shown the John Dredge who married Caroline as born in 1817. He is identified as aged 30 (born Downton) in the 1851 Census, aged 42 (born Downton) in the 1861 Census and aged 60 (born Redlynch) in the 1881 Census. This John Dredge was, therefore, still alive in 1881 and born about 1819 - 21 from the Census entries.
The John Dredge who married Elizabeth Stone is listed as aged 33 (born Britford) in the 1851 Census, aged 44 (born Britford) in the 1861 Census and aged 54 (born Britford) in the 1871 Census. This indicates a birth about 1817. He does not appear in the 1881 Census. This information is, therefore, consistent with a birth and baptism in 1817 and the death in 1877.
The 1861 Census confirms Thomas S. Dredge as being the son of John and Elizabeth.
From the above information it does not appear to be the John Dredge b 8 Jun 1817 who married Caroline Penn on 14 Jan 1850.
Nigel
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Alcock (Ashill), Barber (Chilcompton), Breeze (Ovington), Carey (Salisbury and Warminster), Collacott (Combe Martin and Shebbear), Creamer (North Elmham), Goss (Bristol and Combe Martin), Musselwhite (Britford and Downton), Sparkes (North Elmham), Thorogood (Little Hallingbury), Turner (Codford, Salisbury and Warminster), Wakefield (Briston and Hindolveston)
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heywood
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 8237
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Hello,
I looked for John last night but then just as I got it ready to post -lost contact.
At first I thought that John had left one 'wife' and then married another but then I found the two Johns in 1871 (from memory).
However, after reading this I now realise I was following a completely different John and Elizabeth (from Frome) 
Reading this today, are you just raising the question of the two Johns and Moses?
The IGI entries are submissions- so someone has presumably put two and two together and decided that John who married Elizabeth is the son of Moses.
Downton (Moses and John) is only 5 miles away from Britford (your John) on google map.
There are a few Dredges born Britford in 1851 and 1841 censuses. Family Search has some of these born to Charles and Mary with baptisms in Salisbury (Wesleyan).
There is also a Peter Dredge, carpenter with a daughter Hannah who is born around 1815. I notice your John is a carpenter.
Unfortunately, the baptism for Hannah, daughter of Peter is a submission on IGI so no help there.
Have you tried accessing the Britford Parish records at all?
best wishes
heywood
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukAlexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo. |
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nigelp
RootsChat Member
Posts: 211
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There is a John DREDGE, son of Joseph & Sarah, baptised at Downton, South Street Chapel (Baptist) on 8 March 1818.
Nigel
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Alcock (Ashill), Barber (Chilcompton), Breeze (Ovington), Carey (Salisbury and Warminster), Collacott (Combe Martin and Shebbear), Creamer (North Elmham), Goss (Bristol and Combe Martin), Musselwhite (Britford and Downton), Sparkes (North Elmham), Thorogood (Little Hallingbury), Turner (Codford, Salisbury and Warminster), Wakefield (Briston and Hindolveston)
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nigelp
RootsChat Member
Posts: 211
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Hi Heywood,
There is plenty of scope for confusion here!
The John Dredge who married Elizabeth Stone is consistently indicated as born in Britford in all of the censuses up to 1871. However, this does not necessarily mean that he was baptised in Britford. Downton is a neighbouring parish and I have ancestors who were born in Britford and baptised in Downton.
As matters stand the birth / baptism issue for the John Dredge who married Elizabeth Stone is confusing. There is a baptism for a John Dredge on 1 June 1817 in Downton and who is the son of Moses and Anne. From the ages in the Census entries this may be the correct entry.
The Census entries suggest that the above baptism is not for the John Dredge born in Redlynch (Downton) and who married Caroline Penn because this John Dredge was born between 1819 and 1821.
There is also a John Dredge baptised at the Baptist Chapel in Downton on 8 March 1818 which doesn't appear to fit well with the Census entries although it cannot be eliminated at present for the marriage of the John Dredge to Elizabeth Stone.
Finally, the baptism records for Britford are not in the IGI and there could, therefore, be a relevant baptism (or baptisms) in Britford.
I may have an opportunity to visit the WRO tomorrow although this may not help because it won't have the marriage in 1837 in Wincanton.
Nigel
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Alcock (Ashill), Barber (Chilcompton), Breeze (Ovington), Carey (Salisbury and Warminster), Collacott (Combe Martin and Shebbear), Creamer (North Elmham), Goss (Bristol and Combe Martin), Musselwhite (Britford and Downton), Sparkes (North Elmham), Thorogood (Little Hallingbury), Turner (Codford, Salisbury and Warminster), Wakefield (Briston and Hindolveston)
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janeeliza999
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Nigel and Heywood
I know that birth dates are not set in stone and ages on census dates can vary.
I have not , unfortunately, seen any birth or marriage certificates at this time.
The only thing that keeps me thinking that Moses is not his father is that he has only one son by the name of John, who was born about 1817-1820,and married Caroline Penn.
My GGG Grandfathers name is Thomas Stone Dredge (sometimes written Thommas)
Births Sep 1842
Dredge Thomas Stone Alderbury 8 227
His father is John Dredge
In the 1841 census he is down as being born Wilts.
All of Moses Dredges family are born Downton.
Another troubling thing is that 2 of Moses Dredges sons are down as dying on the same date.
John Dredge and Thomas Dredge. Both 22 April 1877.There was a 3rd son on that day too but then I found a different date for him.
Thank you Heywood for saying that 2 + 2 = 5 on this one. My thoughts exactly.
How could I get hold of Britford Parish records?
I live in Cheshire
As you say this is a confusing one !
Many thanks again
Jane
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« Last Edit: Saturday 07 November 09 06:42 UTC (UK) by krisesjoint »
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nigelp
RootsChat Member
Posts: 211
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Hi Jane,
I have sent you a PM about Britford.
Moses does appear to have only one son John. However, based on the current evidence and without having seen the marriage certificate I am not sure why you believe Moses is the father of the John Dredge who married Caroline Penn.
Nigel
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Alcock (Ashill), Barber (Chilcompton), Breeze (Ovington), Carey (Salisbury and Warminster), Collacott (Combe Martin and Shebbear), Creamer (North Elmham), Goss (Bristol and Combe Martin), Musselwhite (Britford and Downton), Sparkes (North Elmham), Thorogood (Little Hallingbury), Turner (Codford, Salisbury and Warminster), Wakefield (Briston and Hindolveston)
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janeeliza999
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Nigel
John Dredge
Born 8 Jun 1817 - Downton, Wilts (Wiltshire)
Died 22 Apr 1877 - Wilts (Wiltshire)
Married 14 Jan 1850 - Downton, Wilts (Wiltshire)
Spouse Caroline Penn
Parents Moses Dredge and Anne Nicholas
This is on a public member tree on Ancestry
Jane
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« Last Edit: Saturday 07 November 09 06:43 UTC (UK) by krisesjoint »
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heywood
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 8237
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Thought I'd have a quick check - can't see John and Caroline in 1871 but they are in 1881 census -John born Redlynch. So, if this is them, he is not the one who dies in 1877. In fact, John and caroline seem to be in 1901 census.
Have checked Ancestry Family Tree - there are no historical records to verify the claims.
However, after reading over this- am not sure whether Jane, you are undecided about Moses and John or whether you believe that Moses is your John's father 
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukAlexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo. |
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