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Topic: Marriage not found in GRO indexes... (Read 563 times)
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croptop
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Catholic Marriages?? where do I look??
I know that my Gr Grandfather Daniel Collins was born in Deptford c1862.
I have been told by family members that my Gr Grandmother Johanna Connor was born in Kerry Ireland c1862-1865.
I have found Daniel in the 1881 census when he was stationed at Barracks in Maidstone Kent. I know where my Great Grandparents raised their family - Deptford Kent (now SE London).
Daniel Collins & Johanna Connor were staunch Catholics and my Uncle can remember Johanna from when he was a boy, her house having catholic pictures and crucifixes everywhere, therefore I cannot believe that they raised seven children without being married and yet I have scoured the "England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915" on Ancestry and can find no trace of either of them.
Also I didn't just use the index transcriptions, I have called up the Index images from 1880 to 1890 (their first child Patrick was born in 1889 for which I have a copy birth certificate), for every quarter for names Danile Collins, Collings, Collens & Collenge, etc.
And for Johanna Connor, Conner, Coner, Conor, O'Conor and O'Conor etc.
I can find no trace of a suitable marriage in the area nor county. I cannot imagine such poor people living far from Kent and the only two possible marriages for Daniel Collins I ordered the certificates but neither has the right wife's name.
Where now can I try to find their marriage?
If someone comes back to me with a marriage, please explain how and where it was found, so that I may learn how to do it for myself.
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Nightingale & Collins in Kent 1850-1920's
Battley in Margate & Norfolk.
Ray in Newington London.
Atkins in Hastings & Rye East Sussex.
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madpants
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2082
Old Pants for Mum44
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Welcome to Rootschat Croptop 
I think they must have waited a while
Marriages
Dec Q 1893
Daniel Collins
Johanna O'Connor
Greenwich
1d 1702
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GREENWELL - Middlesbrough
TURNBULL - Houghton le Spring, Coxhoe, Spennymoor
DEVEY - Pentonville, Stockton, M'bro
MOHAN/HUN - Stockton on Tees
SCRAFTON - Darlington
BROADBENT - Saddleworth, Ashton Under Lyne
HEMSWELL - Grantham, M'bro
SIMPKINS - M'bro
SIMPKIN - Little Wratting, Suffolk
MALLALIEU - Saddleworth, Ashton U L
GOODWIN - Macclesfield Forest
SUTCLIFFE - Heptonstall, Ashton U L
PLIMMER - Pontesbury, Ashton U L
CAMBRIDGE - Goulborne, Ashton U L
SIDDALL - Ashton U L
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danuslave
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 955
My fashion sense isn't any better now!
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Hi & welcome to RootsChat
Have you looked on
www.freebmd.org.uk
Although the Ancestry records are supposed to be the same, it's possible that something got lost in translation 
I don't think the fact that it would have been a Catholic marriage should make any difference. It would still have to be registered.
Linda
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danuslave
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 955
My fashion sense isn't any better now!
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Sorry madpants - bring back the red warnings 
Linda
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madpants
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2082
Old Pants for Mum44
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I found this on FreeBMD Ancestry has these transcriptions also but the freeBMD site search is so flexible and easy to use.
http://www.freebmd.org.uk
I just put in
Daniel Collin* (in case he didn't have an s)
and Jo* in spouse first name, to weed out a lot of unrelated hits.
The key is to always look past an obvious date. My search dates were 1885 - 1899.
When you find a marriage click on the page number of the entry eg 1702 for yours. This brings up all the entries on that page. Unless you buy the cert you can never be 100% sure as there are generally 4 or more names on it.
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GREENWELL - Middlesbrough
TURNBULL - Houghton le Spring, Coxhoe, Spennymoor
DEVEY - Pentonville, Stockton, M'bro
MOHAN/HUN - Stockton on Tees
SCRAFTON - Darlington
BROADBENT - Saddleworth, Ashton Under Lyne
HEMSWELL - Grantham, M'bro
SIMPKINS - M'bro
SIMPKIN - Little Wratting, Suffolk
MALLALIEU - Saddleworth, Ashton U L
GOODWIN - Macclesfield Forest
SUTCLIFFE - Heptonstall, Ashton U L
PLIMMER - Pontesbury, Ashton U L
CAMBRIDGE - Goulborne, Ashton U L
SIDDALL - Ashton U L
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madpants
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2082
Old Pants for Mum44
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That's ok Linda
Why have they gone? it was useful to see if you had duplicated (even if you then ignored it and posted anyway  )
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GREENWELL - Middlesbrough
TURNBULL - Houghton le Spring, Coxhoe, Spennymoor
DEVEY - Pentonville, Stockton, M'bro
MOHAN/HUN - Stockton on Tees
SCRAFTON - Darlington
BROADBENT - Saddleworth, Ashton Under Lyne
HEMSWELL - Grantham, M'bro
SIMPKINS - M'bro
SIMPKIN - Little Wratting, Suffolk
MALLALIEU - Saddleworth, Ashton U L
GOODWIN - Macclesfield Forest
SUTCLIFFE - Heptonstall, Ashton U L
PLIMMER - Pontesbury, Ashton U L
CAMBRIDGE - Goulborne, Ashton U L
SIDDALL - Ashton U L
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danuslave
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 955
My fashion sense isn't any better now!
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It's all to do with the work they're doing on the site. We've been told that they will come back - eventually
Linda
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madpants
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2082
Old Pants for Mum44
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Good They were a pain but useful Thanks
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GREENWELL - Middlesbrough
TURNBULL - Houghton le Spring, Coxhoe, Spennymoor
DEVEY - Pentonville, Stockton, M'bro
MOHAN/HUN - Stockton on Tees
SCRAFTON - Darlington
BROADBENT - Saddleworth, Ashton Under Lyne
HEMSWELL - Grantham, M'bro
SIMPKINS - M'bro
SIMPKIN - Little Wratting, Suffolk
MALLALIEU - Saddleworth, Ashton U L
GOODWIN - Macclesfield Forest
SUTCLIFFE - Heptonstall, Ashton U L
PLIMMER - Pontesbury, Ashton U L
CAMBRIDGE - Goulborne, Ashton U L
SIDDALL - Ashton U L
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LizzieW
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3294
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Unless you buy the cert you can never be 100% sure as there are generally 4 or more names on it.
I usually try to find each male on the next census and see who his wife is, that rules out many of possibilities and you should eventually find the right husband with the right wife, but probably still a good idea to buy the marriage cert to be sure. Just order it in the name you are certain of.
Lizzie
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BENSON- Dalton in Furness (Ulverston) and Hull
BETTISON - Derbys
BOULTON - Dalton-in-Furness and surrounding areas
BRAND - Lincs
COCKETT - Lincs, Yorks, Lancs
DA COSTA (or variants) - Spain or Portugal, London (Middx), ?Hull
GILCHRIST - Scotland, Lincs
HINGLEY - Derbys/Yorks
MANN - Sussex, Kent, Herts
MUMBY - Lincolnshire and Hull
PEMBERTON - Ches, Lancashire
STANTON - Lincs
ROBINSON - Lincs
WHITTAKER/WHITAKER - Ches/Lancs
WRIGHT- Bethnal Green
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trish1120
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3506
My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
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Mmm yes, I have a few good Catholics in my Tree that did the same thing
I am posting this info although you still need to get the Marriage Cert to confirm Daniels Fathers name, which I am sure WILL be Patrick as his first son is named that.
Possible 1871 for Daniel;
1871 Census
4 Queens Court,
Deptford, Kent
RG10/744/103/37
Patrick COLLINS, 33, Head, Mar, Labourer ? Factory, born Ireland
Catherine, 30, Wife, Mar, born Ireland
Mary, 11
DANIEL, 8
Ellen, 6
Catherine, 3
John, 1
( All children born Deptford, Kent)
+ Bridget HICKEY, 89, Lodger, Widow, born Ireland
1861 Census
Old King St,
Deptford, Kent
RG9/397/109/15
Patrick COLLINS, 23 Head, Mar, Labourer/ Dock, born Ireland
Catherine Collins, 22, Wife, Mar, born Ireland
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All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND) |
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trish1120
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3506
My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
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1851 Census for Patrick Collins is very interesting and has Hickey connection.
HO107/1554/596/42
It is hard to figure out exact relationships 
2 Possible marriages on Freebmd for Daniel Collins;
1858 Greenwich to Catherine SHEEN
1859 Croydon to Catherine PASMORE
Greenwich looks more likely as it is the reg district on all Deptford census entries.
Trish 
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All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND) |
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trish1120
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3506
My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
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I think that one is unlikely;
Just search Collins , Johanna , kent, 1900 in first box, no end date, and this comes up;
Johanna COLLINS
March 1914
Croydon 2a 511
Age 43
Remember if she lived to a good old age she would not appear on Freebmd which only goes up to abt 1936ish. Also her death could be reg outside of Kent if she was staying with family members.
Let us know how you get on with marriage cert.
Cheers,
Trish
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All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND) |
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croptop
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I think that one is unlikely; (I Croptop [Martin] assume you meant my possibility of Dec 1929 O'Connor Johanna 70 Greenwich 1d 828 )
Your suggestion of - Johanna COLLINS March 1914 Croydon 2a 511 Age 43 - is way off I think as our family has never had any connections to Croydon. Earlier in this topic I said that Johanna Connor was born in Kerry Ireland c1862-1865.
I take your points on board and thankyou for your advice.
My Uncle (b1926) says he remembers her as a shrivelled up old woman, with strong catholic beliefs. My two Uncles and my father lived with their parents, my grandparents, in Addey Street in Deptford, where my grandfather John Collins ran his grocers shop, but were moved to the Kennington Estate out between WWI and WWII. On the Kennington Estate they got a new shop and flat above in a LCC block on Jonathon Street.
I will let us know how I get on with marriage cert.
Thanks
Martin
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Nightingale & Collins in Kent 1850-1920's
Battley in Margate & Norfolk.
Ray in Newington London.
Atkins in Hastings & Rye East Sussex.
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trish1120
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3506
My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
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Sorry Martin I was out in my Maths 
As you know she was alive post 1926 then she did live to a good age. Your Uncle would only be 3 in 1929 so would he remember her at that age. Maybe she died much later when he was at an age to remember her well?
I think it would be unusual for her to be reg under her maiden name at death though.
Good luck with te cert.
Cheers,
Trish
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All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND) |
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