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Topic: Brewer family from Barnet (Read 201 times)
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Joseph Brewer
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Has anyone any idea why I cannot find my Ancestors born Barnet Herfordshire/Middx befor the 1861 Census - I've explored the areas by'walking through the Census pages' in case they are illegible. Any other ideas? I would be so grateful for any pointers.
Kind Regards, Joseph
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Joseph Brewer
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi thanks for the advice.
Does anyone know of a Joseph Brewer - father William Veterinary Surgeon. All I know about Joseph is from 1861 onwards. I cannot find him on Census 1841 or 1851. He says he was born 1835/36 Barnet Herts/ Middlesex (the borders changed). He was already widowe when he married my great great grandmother Emma Jane Stingemore (registered Stingimor in 1840) she was born Dorset - but they married in St Pancras Old Church 1863. Can anyone help me trace Joseph on 1851 or 1841 Census?
Would be most grateful,
Joseph
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Luzzu
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 551
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Hi,
Have you had a look at this one? Its not a fantastic match as a stable man is a long way from a veterinary surgeon.
1851 Census
54 Little George Street, St Pancras, Middlesex
William Brewer 51 head stable man born St Albans, Herts
Sarah Brewer 66 wife born Hitchin, Herts
Joseph Brewer 15 son servant born Barnes, Surrey
Thomas Brewer 13 son born Barnes, Surrey
Frederic Brewer 11 son born St Albans, Herts
Class: HO107; Piece: 1496; Folio: 517; Page: 36; GSU roll: 87828-87829
I think this must be Emma in 1851:-
1851 Census
John Stingimor 43 head labourer born Tisbury, Wilts
Charlotte Stingimor 37wife born East Tisbury, Wilts
William Stingimor 16 son labourer born East Tisbury, Wilts
Mary Stingimor 14 dau born East Tisbury, Wilts
Emma Stingimor 10 dau born Shaftsbury, Dorset
Sarah A Stingimor 8 dau born Shaftsbury, Dorset
George Stingimor 5 son born Dorset
Pharagh Stingimor 1 son born East Tisbury, Wilts
Class: HO107; Piece: 1849; Folio: 191; Page: 17; GSU roll: 220996
Have you any ideas on his first marriage? If I am looking at the right person on the 1861 census he was still married to his first wife but he was working in a hotel so they don't appear together at the same address.
Have you tracked down his birth certificate yet?
Luzzu
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Buck, Staffs & Hants; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh/Hague, Manchester & Todmorden; Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Yorkshire; Shackleton, Burnley, Yorkshire & Australia;
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Joseph Brewer
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
Thank you for being so kind in trying to help me. I've checked out the 1851 Census for St Alban's and read 'Stable man' as 'Halls Man' - which could refer to Victorian Veterinary Surgery Halls - but may not. I have a birth certificate for the Thomas Brewer, Joseph was born prior to Registration ( the certificate match for Thomas, 1837, is in Monken hadley, Barnet registration district. His mother is Sarah Frances Cook. A marriage for a William Brewer and Sarah Frances Cook, both widowed , occured in 1833 - South Mimms.
The only baptism I can find close to Joseph's is in 1853, stating he was born May 1835, Hendon, Barnet, father William and mother Hannah! This has totally confused the issue!
I would be very interested in your view on the 'Stable man/ Halls Man' idea.
By the way - thanks also for the Stingimor/Stingemore entries - I do have them - but you deserve a medal - they are quite hard to find aren't they?
Kind Regards,
Joseph
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Luzzu
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 551
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Hi,
I've had another look at the 1851 original and I see "stable man" rather than "halls man" but I can see how it could be read either way.
Because vetinerary surgeons evolved from the men who used to care for the army horses in the Napolieonic wars, I thought this might link to "stable man". However, I am going luke warm on this idea as before vetinerary surgeons came into being, I have read that farriers were in charge of the medical care of horses whilst stable men were grooms.
What was William's occupation on his son Thomas' birth certificate?
Is it possible that Joseph's mother is the son of his first wife and the younger sons are from his second wife? I would obtain a birth certificate for Frederic to establish that both Thomas and Frederic had the same mother and I would try to find a death/burial record for the first wife but I would put a question mark over the Joseph baptism being the right one. The William Brewer/Sarah Frances Cook marriage seems to match.
Luzzu
PS Can't see any of them in 1841
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Buck, Staffs & Hants; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh/Hague, Manchester & Todmorden; Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Yorkshire; Shackleton, Burnley, Yorkshire & Australia;
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nigelp
RootsChat Member
Posts: 248
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The marrriage of Joseph Brewer to Emma Stingmore was on 3 November 1863 at St Mary, Marylebone (not St Pancras Old Church). Joseph's occupation is given as Hall Porter and he is indicated as living in Marylebone at the time.
Emma Stingmore's father is given as John. His occupation is brickmaker.
A Stephen (Negus?) and Anne Stingmore are witnesses to the wedding.
Nigel
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Alcock (Ashill), Barber (Chilcompton), Breeze (Ovington), Carey (Salisbury and Warminster), Collacott (Combe Martin and Shebbear), Creamer (North Elmham), Goss (Bristol and Combe Martin), Musselwhite (Britford and Downton), Sparkes (North Elmham), Thorogood (Little Hallingbury), Turner (Codford, Salisbury and Warminster), Wakefield (Briston and Hindolveston)
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nigelp
RootsChat Member
Posts: 248
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Joseph Brewer (bachelor, porter) of St Pancras first married Mary Ann Martin (spinster) at St Pancras on 1 July 1857. Joseph's father is given as William Brewer - dead. Mary Ann's father is given as Edward Martin - dead.
Mary Ann may have died in 1860 - GRO: 1b 36 Pancras Dec 1860.
Nigel
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Alcock (Ashill), Barber (Chilcompton), Breeze (Ovington), Carey (Salisbury and Warminster), Collacott (Combe Martin and Shebbear), Creamer (North Elmham), Goss (Bristol and Combe Martin), Musselwhite (Britford and Downton), Sparkes (North Elmham), Thorogood (Little Hallingbury), Turner (Codford, Salisbury and Warminster), Wakefield (Briston and Hindolveston)
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nigelp
RootsChat Member
Posts: 248
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There appears to be a third marriage for Joseph Brewer on 3 July 1875 at St Andrew, Islington! 
Joseph Brewer (widower and messenger) of 44 Twyford Street, son of William Brewer (deceased, veterinary surgeon) to Mary Aldridge (widow) of 44 Twyford Street, daughter of Patrick Lane (deceased, tanner?).
From the 1881 Census Mary appears to have been born in Ireland.
Emma Jane appears to have died in 1875 - GRO: 1b 70 Pancras Mar 1875, age 34.
Nigel
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Alcock (Ashill), Barber (Chilcompton), Breeze (Ovington), Carey (Salisbury and Warminster), Collacott (Combe Martin and Shebbear), Creamer (North Elmham), Goss (Bristol and Combe Martin), Musselwhite (Britford and Downton), Sparkes (North Elmham), Thorogood (Little Hallingbury), Turner (Codford, Salisbury and Warminster), Wakefield (Briston and Hindolveston)
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nigelp
RootsChat Member
Posts: 248
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This looks like the relevant 1841 Census entry (corresponding to the 1851 post by Luzzu):
HO107; Piece 447; Book: 5; Folio: 19; Page: 31
St Albans, Hertfordshire
Sarah Brewer 32
Mary Ann Constable 22
John Cook 11
Josh Brewer 5
Thos Brewer 3
Fredk Brewer 2
All born in the County.
There is also the following in the 1841 census (which suggests that Hannah is not correct):
HO107; Piece 441; Book: 4; Folio: 29; Page: 11
Harpenden, Hertfordshire
William Brewer Ag. Lab. 50 (Not born in County)
Hannah Brewer 40
Mary Brewer 16
William Brewer 12
Apart From William Sr. all born in the County.
Also for the 1851 Census there is the following:
HO107; Piece: 1713; Folio: 113; Page: 5
Harpenden, Hertfordshire
William Brewer Head 62 Ag Lab Bedfordshire, Toddington
Hannah Brewer Wife 57 Herts, Watford
Elizabeth Swain Lodger 55 Herts, ?
William Brewer Son 20 Herts, Harpenden
The marriage of William Brewer to Sarah Frances Cook on 26 May 1833 at South Mimms looks relevant.
Nigel
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Alcock (Ashill), Barber (Chilcompton), Breeze (Ovington), Carey (Salisbury and Warminster), Collacott (Combe Martin and Shebbear), Creamer (North Elmham), Goss (Bristol and Combe Martin), Musselwhite (Britford and Downton), Sparkes (North Elmham), Thorogood (Little Hallingbury), Turner (Codford, Salisbury and Warminster), Wakefield (Briston and Hindolveston)
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whoops that will teach me to read the whole thing - still it was first thing this morning