Jeremy Pyne
RootsChat Member
Posts: 211
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Grateful for help with entries for a Pyne family in or around Nailsea in 1841 or 51.
My G G Grandfather John Pyne was born in Nailsea in 1835. His father was Fred Pyne, a blacksmith and mother Ann Pyne though she died and Fred married her sister Jane in 1837.
John also became a blacksmith and was in London by 1853 when he married in Waterloo.
I am interested in filling some gaps between John's birth in 1835 and the time he got to London
Thanks
Jeremy
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« Last Edit: Saturday 07 November 09 23:34 UTC (UK) by krisesjoint »
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krisesjoint
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Nate at 9 weeks
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Hi Jeremy,
HO107/956/6 Folio 13 Page 18
Heath
Nailsea
DAW Isaac 30 Y Lab
DAW Elizabeth 30 Y
DAW William 20 Y
DAW Mary 23 Y
PINE Frederic 30 Y Journeyman Blacksmith
PINE Emma 9 Y
PINE John 5 Y
PINE Ann 3 Y
Cheers Kris 
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Liz in France
RootsChat Member
Posts: 196
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jeremy.
Kris beat me to it but that was all I could find. There were a few baptism entries on the Nailsea site for Pyne with the father's occupation blacksmith but not with Frederick as the father and none that are on the 1841 census.
There was no burial entry for his wife at Holy Trinity and Christ Church has been transcribed yet.
There was a public tree on Ancestry that looked promising but does not match with the 1841 entry.
Sorry I cannot help.
Elizabeth
[font=VeEdit
Have just found a marriage for Frederick Pyne to Jane Bessant 12.3.1837 at Weston in Gordano but did not see the earlier marriage for Ann Bessant. That was the name of the wife of Frederick on the Ancestry tree so maybe it is the same family.
It has John marrying Ann Cummins. Is this one yours?
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krisesjoint
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RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10429
Nate at 9 weeks
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Hi Jeremy and Liz,
I have now found his family in 1851 
HO107/1558 Folio 264 Page 41
7 James Place
Southwark St Savior
Surrey
PINE Frederick Head 42 mar b (Abesson)? Somerset Blacksmith
PINE Anne Wife 45 b Whitechapel Middlesex
PINE Ann dau 12 b (Abesson)? Somerset
FLEY Ambrose Visitor 23 Unm b Bind? Middlesex Boiler Maker
BRIERLEY John Visitor 52 b Liverpool School Assistant
Cheers Kris
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« Last Edit: Sunday 08 November 09 09:53 UTC (UK) by krisesjoint »
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Liz in France
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Posts: 196
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Kris,
I too had found that one before I found the 1841 census but dismissed it as his wife's name was Ann and Jeremy said she had died prior to 1837. I was looking for Jane. Having found the marriage of Fred to Jane Bessant in 1837, I am now somewhat a little puzzled.
Is this 1851 the right family or has Jeremy got it wrong and Ann did not die?
Needs more searching and possibly more information from Jeremy. Perhaps this Ann is a third marriage!
Where on earth in Somerset is Abesson?
It is so easy to get the wrong link and spend a lot of time needlessly. I know, I've done it!
Elizabeth
Love the updated photos of your son
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Jeremy Pyne
RootsChat Member
Posts: 211
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Many thanks for the replies above. As is often the way starts raising new questions.
The 1841 entry for Nailsea definately looks like the right family. As well as John I had his sisters Emma and Ann at these ages .
Interesting that there is no Jane at this point. I have just looked and notice a death of a Jane Pyne in Bedminster district in 1840, so possible that Fred diod lose a second wife at that point - would explain why he had no further children. So the 1851 entry in Southwark could again be the right one, but I can find no thrid marriage for Fred.
I woner if 'abesson' is a transcription error for Weston. Fred was born in Weston in Gordano.
On Fred's wives, his first marriage was to Ann Atwell , he married in Bristol. His second wife , Jane was called Jane Bessant when they married but she was already a widow, she was born Jane Atwell and I believe was Anns sister.
Final point was to confirm that John, did marry Ann Cummins, that was in Waterloo in 1853.
Thanks again for all your help.
Jeremy
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krisesjoint
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Posts: 10429
Nate at 9 weeks
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Hi Liz,
Thanks, he is a little sweetie - they grow so quickly (he is my grandson)
I can't work out what that says re the parish, I meant to put a ? on it. Looking again it is not an A. The A's of Ann are nothing like it.
I think it must be Frederick. (age Occ and Somerset seem good along with the daughter Ann.)
I suspected it may be another marriage as he does not have a wife at home in 1841. There is the burial for Ann PINE at Holy Trinity Nailsea 17 Aug 1836 aged 25.
John PYNE bachelor of full age a Smith of Vine St (Father Frederick PYNE - Smith) = Ann CUMMINS spinster, minor of Vine St (Father William CUMMINS - Shoemaker) 9 Oct 1853 after banns St Johns Church Waterloo. John signed, Ann signed with her mark, witnesses John and Ann WADE.
Cheers Kris
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krisesjoint
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Nate at 9 weeks
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See what you can make of it. Its not Weston Jeremy, just can't work out what it is and like you I have not found a third marriage.
Will put on the general board so you can see it.
Kris
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 fpyne.jpg (37.03 KB, 335x151 - viewed 14 times.)
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krisesjoint
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Nate at 9 weeks
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I wondered if Ambrose may have helped but he is an Orphan in the Orphan asylum in 1841 so no help. The writing in that 51 entry is rather difficult - I transcribed him as Fley but he seems to be Hey in 1841 
Kris
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Liz in France
RootsChat Member
Posts: 196
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
Don't think it can be Weston as the first letter is nothing like the W on the next entry. It looks as if it has a double S with on on the end but there is no village listed on the 1851 Somerset census with a double S. It has been transcribed as St Cefon but if you compare that with the St Saviour, it does not match.
Perhaps it is a little hamlet that forms part of a bigger admin area.
I agree with Kris, that the A is not right as the enumerator writes that as a rounded letter.
Find my past have it as Abberton?
Beats me.
Elizabeth
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Jeremy Pyne
RootsChat Member
Posts: 211
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Thanks again for the further thoughts above.
I have a print of an 1817 map of the area around Weston in Gordano where Fred was christened. The onlly other place I can see which just might tie in is Clapton. Clapton in Gordano is just a mile or two from Weston. Not at all certain though.
I wonder was Fred still around in 1861, have not pinned his death down yet so might have used a similar description then?
Jeremy
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