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Topic: GRENFELL - St Just (Read 242 times)
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larky
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 27
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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hi there ,
i am at present doing a tree for a neighbor....who turns out to be my 2nd cousin X1 removed .
i have his grand father William henry grenfell born abt 1859 cornwall
on scottish census 1881...age 22 ...living in larkhall...working as a miner
we still live in larkhall.
having trouble with next line of tree
also on 1881..i have a William grenfell ..i take to be father born abt 1838 in st just cornwall...wife Elizabeth Carter ...now i am stuck as i cant find her birth or marriage .
they must have came to larkhall, lanarkshire abt 1870 - 1880 ish .
to day .i found them on 1871 scottish census
living at dykehead colliery...hamilton,Lanarkshire
with sons
william grenfell...age 12...born....cornwall
james c grenfell.........10...born...cornwall
mary t grenfell............4...born....cornwall
any info on this line of grenfell ..will be appreciated...any info at all .
lots of grenfells...new to genelogy.....
thanks
Larky
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« Last Edit: Monday 09 November 09 18:58 UTC (UK) by larky »
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3610
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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this looks like the same family in 1861
Beach, St Ives RG9/1590 folio 13 pg 24
William H Grenfell head mar 22 copper miner b. St Ives
Elizabeth wife 22 b. Paul
William son 2 b. St Ives
James C son b. St Ives
possible marriage reg
William Henry Grenfell sept qtr 1858 Penzance vol 5c pg 446 with Elizabeth Jane Carter on the same page
think you'll need the marriage cert as there's more than one William Henry Grenfell around the area. By the way, there are 2 parishes with St Just in their name - the one near St Ives is St Just in Penwith.
This site may help you with parish records
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/
and you can access the Cornwall census via FreeCen
http://www.freecen.org.uk/
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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larky
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 27
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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thanks osprey,
yes that looks like them.....have since found death cert for William henry grenfell also his wife Elizabeth Jane carter.
William died ..larkhall...1914 ...parents are listed as William grenfell
Elija Rowe
i had his parents as john grenfell and Elizabeth ?as the 1851 census showed must have got wrong one...but he was listed as an apprentice cordwainer(shoemaker)....1901 Scottish census larkhall...shoemaker.any ideas as to parents .
Also Elizabeth Jane carter death ...1893...larkhall....shows her parents as James carter and Elizabeth Jane Ellis toukin not heard of that surname or the spelling as cert is hard to read any ideas ?
thanks again for the info ,and quick reply
cheers
wal
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3610
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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suspect the name is Tonkin. On the opc search site, there's a James Carter who witnessed a marriage of a Jane Tonkin Ellis in Paul in 1839. The father on this record is given as George Ellis
and George Ellis married Mary Tonkin 26/5/1799 in Madron by Penzance.
IGI extracted baptisms for Paul C053401, parents George Ellis & Mary
Mary bp 3/8/1800
George bp 10/10/1802
William bp 21/10/1804
Jane Tonkin 7/9/1808
Charles 8/5/1808
There's an extracted baptism in IGI batch C023411 Paul for Elizabeth Jane Carter 4/9/1836 dau of James & Mary Carter.
I'm hoping that the mother's first name on the death cert is wrong and whoever registered the death thought she had been named after her mother.
Can't spot the Carter marriage as yet but I'll post this and go check my indexes. I've spotted a possible William/Eliza couple in 1841, but need to look for their marriage as well.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3610
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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not having any joy with the marriages in Cornwall, but this could be the family in 1851
Fore St, St Ives HO107/1917 folio 513 pg 28
William Grenfell head mar 39 miner b. Madron
Eliza wife 40 b. Paul
Richard son 14 b. St Ives
Wm Hy son 12 b. St Ives
Peter R son 2 b. St Ives
Jane Ellis lodger 23 servant b. St Ives
best match I can see for Peter's birth reg has been transcribed on FreeBmd as
Peter Roro Greenfield dec qtr 1848 Penznace vol 9 pg 188
I'm pretty sure the middle name is Row on the original index, but the surname does appear to be Greenfield.
Carter family in 1841?
Boase St, Paul HO107/143/9 folio 32 pg 8
James Carter 40 grocer's shop
Mary 15
Ann 10
William 5
Elizabeth 5
James 2
all born in county except Mary, so perhaps marriage was also out of county
There is an extracted IGI marriage batch M055631 ST Mary Newington, Surrey
James Carter md Mary Ellis 12/12/1821
but they're not uncommon names so it may just be a coincidence.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3610
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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just checked the baptisms for the rest of the Carter family - IGI batch C023411
and William was baptised William Charles Ellis Carter 23/4/1834.
William's age is slightly out on the 1841 census, but it's possible that James' wife had just died. There's a burial of a Mary Carter aged 41 1/6/1841 in Paul, less than a week before the census.
Where did you get the St Just bit from?
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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larky
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 27
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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once again osprey....thanks a lot...great info ..u know where to look...un like me ...OK with Scotland's records ...but finding cornwall difficult.
any way first i found peter grenfell must have came to Scotland with brother William henry ...as peter was married 31 DEC 1869 in larkhall... marriage witness is William henry grenfell...his father is listed as William grenfell... miner .
next i found death cert for peter..1918 larkhall....father listed as green grocer but his mother is same on both certs Elija Rowe...so 1951 census u found looks correct family...brill.
found 1861 census for family..husband must have died between 1855 - 1861as peters marriage cert say father is dececed....mother born in st hilary,corwall.
more children john and fredrick...which is my neighbours name ...fredrick grenfell
thanks for great reply
wal
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3610
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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still don't understand the St Just link. Both boys on the 1861 census have their place of birth as St Ives and Eliza (not Elija, a male name) gives St Hilary rather than Paul as in 1851, family still in St Ives as in 1851
http://www.cornwall-opc.org/MAPS/map_west.php
Have a look at the Cornwall resources - there's plenty of stuff online for Cornwall. The record office in Truro are also very helpful.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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larky
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 27
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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thanks osprey
i got the st just ...info from a census 1851 i think ...there was a william henry grenfell ,elizabeth, john .very similar names also the 1901 census for william henry in scotland occupation shoe maker ...the william in st just was an apprentice shoe maker..didnt have his death cert ...or ur great info
giving me an interest in the cornish miners who came to lanarkshire to work in the mines ...alot of pits in larkhall area...alot of decendents live in larkhall.
cheers to the cornish miners
wal
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Graylight
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Larky
I have already researched this family for my wife's cousin. Unfortunately, I didn't keep a copy of her family tree. My wife is descended from William Henry Grenfell's younger brother John Grenfell (the second given that name as the first one died in the 1840s). The second John Grenfell was originally a tin miner but he educated himself and when he died he was the borough surveyor of St Ives.
William Henry migrated with his family up to Scotland and as I remember there is a close connection with another Cornish family called SEMMENS. The TONKINs and the CARTERs are also closely linked to the GRENFELLs (GREENFIELD - probably just the collator's version of the GRENFELL name).
My wife's second cousin was a SEMMENS whose father was born in Scotland but lived most of his life in Burnley and Leeds. Ironically he moved back to Cornwall for the last years of his life.
The parents of William Henry Grenfell were William Grenfell and Eliza Rowe who appear on the 1841 census living at Trowan, which is a hamlet or farm community on the hills west of St Ives.
In 1851 William (snr) gives his birthplace as Madron (a village north of Penzance). The only William Grenfell christened at Madron around this time was one christened on 12 Mar 1815, the parents being Richard Grenfell and Patience Lawry who were married at Madron 17 Oct 1788.
I don't believe that William Grenfell and Eliza Rowe ever married (I have been searching for this marriage for some years). They set up their home together in the mid-1830s on Trowan Farm just outside St Ives. This farm apparently let out apartments and according to the 1841 census there were seven tin mining familes and three farming families living there.
William was a tin miner.
1841 Census
St Ives HO107/
ED8 Page 9/17
Trowan
William GRENFELL, 25, Miner of tin, in county
Eliza GRENFELL, 30, in county
Richard GRENFELL, 4, in county
William GRENFELL, 2, in county
John GRENFELL, 1, in county
1851 Census
St Ives HO107/1917
ED21 Folio 513 Page 28
Fore Street 38
William GRENFELL, head, marr, 39, Miner, Madron, Cornwall
Eliza GRENFELL, wife, marr, 40, Paul, Cornwall (only census this birthplace was ever mentioned)
Richard GRENFELl, son, 14, St Ives, Cornwall
William Henry GRENFELL, son, 12, St Ives, Cornwall
Peter R GRENFELL, son, 2, St Ives, Cornwall
Jane ELLIS, lodger, unm, 23, Servant,St Ives, Cornwall
Eliza(beth) ROWE is problematic because she gives her birthplace as Paul in the 1851 census and St Hilary after that apart from 1871 when she cites St Ives as her birthplace. I was happy that St Hilary was her birthplace until another post on Rootschat headed 'baptisms' http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,417072.0.html
began to cast doubt on whether this is the right Eliza(beth) Rowe. I have yet to check the Paul baptisms.
I live about a mile away from St Hilary church so I guess I wanted her to be from there.
This is her census records to the end of her life.
1861 Census
St Ives RG9/1590
ED8 Folio 12 Page 22
Beach 123
Eliza GRENFELL, head, widow, 49, Miner's widow, pork and potato seller, St Hilary, Cornwall
Peter GRENFELL, son, 12, Scholar, St Ives, Cornwall
John GRENFELL, son, 9, Scholar, St Ives, Cornwall
Frederick GRENFELL, son, 6, Scholar, St Ives, Cornwall
Stephen MARTIN, lodger, unm, 22, Copper miner, Ireland
John BRAY. lodger, unm, 21, Copper miner, Gwennap, Cornwall
1871 Census
St Ives RG10/2334
ED6 Folio 4 Page 1
Market Strand 2
Elizabeth GRENFELL, head, widow, 58, Miner's widow, St Ives, Cornwall
John GRENFELL, son, marr, 25, Miner, St Ives, Cornwall
Catherine GRENFELL, dau-in-law, marr, 22, St Ives, Cornwall
Frederick GRENFELL, son, unm, 16, Miner, St Ives, Cornwall
Mary GRENFELL, g'dau, 1, St Ives, Cornwall
1881 Census
St Ives RG11/2341
ED7 Folio 88 Page 1
Market Strand 2
Eliza GRENFELL, head, widow, 69, Lodging house keeper, St Hilary, Cornwall
Hope that helps a bit
Graylight
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