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Topic: Black and Tans records? (Read 479 times)
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km1971
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3228
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
When you say that his service record has not survived, have you checked in WO363 in Kew? These are the ‘burnt’ records. They are currently on microfilm, and the task was not very well done, as some records are mixed in with others of a different surname. Ancestry are currently publishing these, and you will have to wait until sometime next year before they have completed the task. If you go on their site you will see how many records with surnames beginning ‘D to Z’ they have found in the ‘A to C’s which is what they are working on at the moment.
The Black and Tans did not wear kilts as far as I know, but being part of the United Kingdom there were a few ‘Scottish’ regiments stationed in Ireland, as well as ‘English’, and there were ‘Irish’ regiments stationed in England etc. I also do not believe that the Scottish Fusiliers wore kilts, so either he was in another regiment before WW1, or it is not him in the photograph. What details of when and where he was born do you have?
You should also check WO97 in Kew. This series contains the papers for men discharged 1900 to 1913. These are original records so you will have to visit or employ a researcher. I was there yesterday, and due to the building works I suggest you leave it until April.
If you do find his WW1 papers they should refer to any previous service if there was a break. Does his MIC say when he entered a theatre of war? You can often tell if a man had pre-WW1 experience from that date.
Also, if he stayed in the army after 1920 his papers will be still with the MOD.
http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/
Ken
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km1971
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3228
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I would wait until Ancestry have finished publishing the WW1 records. The microfilmed version in Kew is in a mess. I found a Smith in the middle of the Ps in the miss-sorts!
The date he left for the front is interesting - October 1915. You really need to find out when 22164 was issued. Did the researcher look in the medal rolls for him, using the reference on the MIC? It often gives date of enlistment. If not I suggest you post a question on http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/ asking when the number was allocated. If it was only a few months before he was sent to France it would imply he had previous military experience.
From his age it is possible he could have served for 12 years before WW1. Of course if this finished after January 1914 his pre-WW1 records would be in the ‘burnt’ documents. The two will be separate, as his MIC does not list a pre-WW1 number as well - although they would have been filed in the same box before the fire.
It is a bit of a sweeping statement that he served at home in the Labour Corps. His LC number might mean he started in a home-based company but once in he could have transferred to one overseas. If you following this link you will find what the 10th YLI got up to in France - http://www.1914-1918.net/21div.htm.
Ken
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simonsmrt
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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a fascinating thread and one of personal interest to me too. Researching family history recently has been very frustrating and gaps/discrepancies cant seem to be reconciled. My Grandad served with the Sherwood Foresters early in the War but having lied about his age and giving a false name no doubt he was apparently discharged shortly after being wounded at Mons. My Dad then said he joined the RFC when old enough and finally volunteered for the Black and Tans after the war before being discharged again after an incident led to him being concussed. But he says he has seen a photo of him in a kilt which I have always thought meant he might have been in the Highland Light Infantry who I believe went to Ireland for the Easter uprising in 1916 (before the Black and Tans existed). Now having read these threads about the kilts I wonder whether my Dad was right and he was actually in the Black and Tans. This also would tie nicely in with the famous photo of 3 Black and Tans at a Racecourse/sports event published all over the www and in the book by Bennet which I have been conviced ever since seeing it, was of my Grandfather
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