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Topic: Dumfries to Guildford mystery is it a brickwall buster? (Read 645 times)
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Boongie Pam
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RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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This is a rare visit south of the border for me 
I've been mooching through some of my older scribblings and I found a will in Scotland that has a curious link to Guildford.
The will is for a Miss Isabella Thomson who died 30/5/1886
I believe she maybe this lady
http://fallon.rootschat.net/135.html
The older sister of my direct John Thomson. He is the executor of the will. I need to confirm this relationship with her death cert.
The portion of the will that is curious is in the inventory as follows...
... The deceased share in a final division of the estate of the late John Thomson PAGAN of Oak Lodge Guildford Surrey under his will dated the 22nd day of December 1882. Principle registry of the probate division of the Court of Justice in England 12th March 1886. ...
PAGAN is a common name in Dumfriesshire but hasn't appeared in my tree (except once in a separate line).
I have had a whiff of an English connection to this family as they have appeared as THOMPSON once - which would be rare in Scotland and unlikely to be a slip up.
Can anyone help me track down OAK LODGE and the mysterious John Thomson PAGAN?
This is the only record I have of John Thomson PAGAN so I have no idea of d.o.b. or place. Isabella is all present and correct in Scotland on the 1841, 51 & 71 census.
Any help much appreciated.
Pam
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
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Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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ricky1
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13476
Mum & Dad
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Hi Boongie Pam
There is death reference for
John Thompson Pagan
Born 1826
Died 1885
Oct/Nov/Dec quarter
aged 59
Guildford
Surrey
vol 2a
page 55
ricky
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Harby,Garton,Drury,Duncombe,Booth,Catton,Barker, Kirkby, Wilson. Lincolnshire, Also Murkin's, Jeffery,Pettitt,Carter, from Suffolk/Cambridgeshire boarder Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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Ricky,
Thanks so much for that.
1826, hmmm interesting.
There goes the theory of him being an illegitimate son - he's older than her.
Curiouser and curiouser.
I couldn't find him in 1881 down south - I'll dig out my Scottish discs.
Thanks for the year of birth that's a great starting point!
I see on the LDS there is a John Thomson PAGAN born 16 MAR 1826 Providence Chapel High Street-Independent, Rochdale, Lancashire. m= Sarah f= Robert Pagan.
Well it's half way between Dumfries and Surrey!
Ta,
Pam
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
~~~~~~~~~~~
Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24398
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Pam
Just noticed that there's the baptism of a J T P in Rochdale in 1826 - IGI C086551?
Anything like - parents Robert and Sarah.
Gadget
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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LOL - I edited as you were posting. Sorry.
I saw that birth there is William, John & Robert around the same time. Though John's mam is down as Jannet.
My lot are big on the naming convention Isabella's father Adam is son of William and his kids names are...
William Thomson
Isabella Thomson
John Thomson
James Thomson
Janet Thomson
Robert Thomson
Mary Jane Thomson
Adam Thomson
Nothing out of the ordinary other than Robert not being that popular in the SW? The naming convention is skewed slightly by the fact that both Isabella's grandparents are called William.
Can anyone find Guildford John Thomson PAGAN bn c1826 on a census to get a birthplace?
P
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
~~~~~~~~~~~
Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24398
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Got him 1871 - not 1881 - same one born Rochdale
Living in Hastings - Magistrate for the county of Lancashire ?, wife Elizabeth 35, daughter Henrietta (15)- wife and daughter born Liverpool
RG10/1031/103/page 18
Gadget
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Happy Nick
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
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I've found John T Pagan in Rochdale in the 1851 census.
His father is Robert, born c1793 in Scotland, a retired Flannel Manufacturer. His mother is Sarah, born c1795 in Rochdale.
There's also a christening in the IGIs for a Robert Pagan, 26 August 1792 Keir, Dumfries - parents John Pagan and Isabel Thompson (the extra 'p' could be a mistake).
Nick
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Jane Masri
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3848
My back garden
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Hi Pam,
Would this be a connection? From A2A
Cumbria Record Office and Local Studies Library,
To find out more about the archives described below, contact Cumbria Record Office and Local Studies Library, Whitehaven
Brockbank and Helder, Solicitors of Whitehaven
Catalogue Ref. DBH
Creator(s):
Brockbank and Helder, Whitehaven, solicitors
Estates of Deceased - ref. DBH 3
FILE [no title] - ref. DBH 3/10 - date: 1858 - 1879
[from Scope and Content] Papers and deeds including the will of John Pagan and copy death certificate of his wife Charlotte, referring to the estate and property of John Pagan: Moor End, St Bees and Lilly Hall, Ennerdale
jane
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukResearching BRABY/BRAVERY in SURREY and SUSSEX PLEASE use the look-up requests page not a personal message. |
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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Thanks Gadget, Nick & Jane,
This is really interesting. And curiouser by the minute. It is getting very very tempting to think Isabella Thom(p)son mother of Robert Pagan could be related. Obviously a long way off that conclusion. But she would of been born a similar time to my Isabella's grandfather Wiliam (1775-1866).
Maybe it is worth tracking down John T Pagan will. Hmmm. Never done that that through the Court services only at local CRO.
Not sure about the Cumbrian connection? Pagan is a fairly frequent name in Cumberland and SW Scotland - but I'm not ruling anything out as this chap seemed to get around!
Off to see what I can find for a magistrate of Lancashire!
P
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
~~~~~~~~~~~
Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24398
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Pam
I found him in Lancashire on the 1861 - he was a flannel merchant. Obviously took after his father, or inherited.
It was about 2.30 and i was getting tired so didn't note down the ref.
I'll look again now.
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24398
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Here they are Pam -
RG9/3037/98/page 23 and 24
The Hollies, Castleton, Rochdale
Jno T Pagan, 45, Flannel manufacturer employing about 300 people  , b Rochdale
L H Pagan, wife, 25, b. Liverpool
Henrietta, d, 5, b. Rochdale
Robert M, s, 14, b. Rochdale
and 3 servants
Gadget
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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Woof!!!! 300 people!
Definitely want that will then! If he was monied then he may of scattered a few farthings to other members of the family and it could mention lots of relatives.
So how do I get an 1880s will in England?
P
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
~~~~~~~~~~~
Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24398
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Thought I had it somewhere:
See
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0i7/
If you have the date of death then you can write to:
The Court Service,
York Probate sub-registry
First Floor
Castle Chambers
Clifford Street
York
YO1 7EA
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24398
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Pam
Don't know if this is of any use - death info:
John Thompson Pagan, Dec Q, 1885, aged 59, Guildford, vol 2a, page 55.
Gadget
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