Author Topic: Journeyman to Master  (Read 4461 times)

Offline jane k

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Journeyman to Master
« on: Sunday 21 March 10 10:03 GMT (UK) »

I understand that apprentices became journeymen at the end of their apprenticeship - but what did journeymen have to do to become a Master?  And would it be the same for all crafts?

Jane

Offline evie

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Re: Journeyman to Master
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 21 March 10 10:18 GMT (UK) »
Booth, Hornsby, Northumberland & Durham
Jackson, Northumberland & Durham
Douthwaite, N Yorks & Durham
Geldard, N Yorks
Ward, Cheshire & W Yorks
Swallow, Boid, W Yorks
Kirby, Lowe, Studholme, Geary, Emery, Baldock

census info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Journeyman to Master
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 21 March 10 10:36 GMT (UK) »
Those links answer most of your question however it is worth adding that a master would usually been elected to that position by his guild.  That would either have been his trade guild or his town guild.

In most trades he was not allowed to take on apprentices until he had become a master, although as a journeyman he would help a master train apprentices and this was often required before he was elected.  As a master he would either have his own business or be running a workshop for his employer.

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jane k

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Re: Journeyman to Master
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 21 March 10 12:14 GMT (UK) »
Thanks both of you - there seems to be lots of information about journeymen but not much about how they progressed!  I think I need to read up more about the Guilds

Jane

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Journeyman to Master
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 21 March 10 13:55 GMT (UK) »
The London City Livery Companies controlled the less common trades countrywide but the others mainly in the London area.  The documentation for most of these is available in the Guildhall Library although a few still have it at their own halls. 

This documentation shows the progression through the various stages including to Freeman, to the Livery and finally to assistantship.  This includes the minutes of the various meetings and the oaths which the members signed.

The local town guilds had similar processes and their documentation can sometimes be found at the Guildhall if it is still active, at a local library or museum or at the county record office.  The best thing is probably to start at the last of these which should know what, if anything, still exists and where it is kept.

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jane k

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Re: Journeyman to Master
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 21 March 10 14:48 GMT (UK) »
Dave - thanks very much - that`s very helpful

Jane

Offline Colin Cruddace

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Re: Journeyman to Master
« Reply #6 on: Monday 22 March 10 03:00 GMT (UK) »
Those links answer most of your question however it is worth adding that a master would usually been elected to that position by his guild.  That would either have been his trade guild or his town guild.

In most trades he was not allowed to take on apprentices until he had become a master, although as a journeyman he would help a master train apprentices and this was often required before he was elected.  As a master he would either have his own business or be running a workshop for his employer.

David

Sorry to jump in on this but it's very late for me, and I want to bookmark for further progress.

David, how sure are you of those facts, because what I found was that a Master of a trade only had to employ apprentices to be called a Master.

Colin

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Journeyman to Master
« Reply #7 on: Monday 22 March 10 09:36 GMT (UK) »
Although I am not sure about having to employ apprentices to be a master I am not sure how that disagrees with anything that I said.  It may well be that he was expected take on an apprentice as part of his election to being a master.  However I have a clear case in my own family history where a master craftsman was working with a single journeyman and no apprentice.  This is evidenced by a diary in which the journeyman complained that he had for a long time been expected to do the jobs which should be left to an apprentice.

Even in the case where a master was running a workshop for an employer I would expect him to be in charge of journeymen and apprentices.

The apprentices which he took on would normally be allocated through the guild and so this may for some crafts be the way in which he was confirmed as a master.

The apprentices allocated by the poor house were probably a different matter but they were often apprenticed to jobs like being servants while I am restricting my comments to craft apprentices.
 
David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Colin Cruddace

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Re: Journeyman to Master
« Reply #8 on: Monday 22 March 10 20:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi David,

My ancestor was a carpenter & joiner and he is also my brick wall as I can't find a birth or baptism for him. I was hoping that some apprenticeship details might throw some light on things, and part of my search involved delving through some records of the Guildhall of Durham (City). None of their business involved appointing apprentices, but the bulk of it was considering applications from local tradesmen, and certain other people, to become Freemen of the City. I could not find anything on becoming a Master of a particular trade either. In the absence of hard evidence, I have tried to use a bit of logic to make sense as to how they progressed. Please feel free to shoot holes in it, I will not be offended.

On completion of an apprenticeship a tradesman would be expected to complete a few years as a freelance Journeyman before starting up his own business. This brings me to how he would then become a master. In my ancestor's case, in 1841 there were unfortunately no descriptions of employment for his family. In 1851 he was a "Joiner master" and his 2 eldest sons were "joiners" and 2 younger sons  were "app. Joiners". By 1861 he was a "Joiner & Cartwright", as were 2 sons who were still at home. Other cases follow a similar pattern, so I assume that the term Master refers to being a master to apprentices or men in his employ, and it was a transitory term.

Regards,
Colin