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Author Topic: John William Tomkins  (Read 7468 times)

Offline Valda

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Re: John William Tomkins
« Reply #9 on: Friday 16 April 10 08:07 BST (UK) »
Hi

Earlier children may of course have not survived. As they married in Essex if they lived there then finding baptisms of children is less easy since the IGI has such poor coverage of the county.


The probate indexes after 1858 have been microfiched up to about 1948. I think somewhere like SAG or large libraries in Australia may hold them. They are not online.


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline K Rees

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Re: Samuel Tomkins and his wife
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 04 December 10 09:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi Valda

A new find - the reputation of George 111 remains in tact as you suggest .....
What about Prince Edward, Duke of Norfolk his brother!!!!!!!

St James' Chronicle or the British Evening Post
April 23 1767 Issue 959

William Petch esq. Page to his Royal Highness the Duke of York is appointed Page to His Majesty.

My ancestor in question Elizabeth Ann Petch was born 1763, as the daughter of William Petch and Mary Ellis. The exaggerated Australian folkore has her as the Hon. Dorothy Petcher, raised by Dr. Petcher and his wife the lady in waiting of George 111.

What is your understanding of the term page? Could it also include that William Petch was the court physician?

Research also links Elizabeth Ann Petch as marrying Samuel Tomkins, the merchant of Bread Street, which also matches the folklore.

I am getting closer.

Regards,

Keith
Rees: innkeeper/farmer/solicitor, Haverfordwest, Wales; Menzies: innkeeper, Glen Lyon, Scotland;
Tomkins: merchants, London;  Lee:  farmers, Watford Village, Northamptonshire; Pocock, teachers, Bristol; Grace: doctors, cricketers, Gloucestershire; Day: lithographers, London; Clark:  teachers, Folkstone.
Banks: farmer/curriers/shoemakers, East Ham, Bermondsey, East End


Offline Eyesee

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Re: John William Tomkins
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 04 December 10 10:07 GMT (UK) »
The Times, Monday, Sep 08, 1817; pg. 3
DIED - On Friday last, at his house in Walworth, Mr. John William Tomkins, of the Victualling Office, aged 62.

The Times, Wednesday, Oct 22, 1856; pg. 1
DEATH - On the 17th. inst., at Russel-place, Fitzroy-square, Eliza Alicia Isabella, widow of the late Samuel Tomkins, Esq., aged 79

Ian C
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

CLAPHAM, PARKINSON, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, FURNER All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
CHALKLEY, OLNEY, Hertfordshire
HARRIS, Essex

Offline Eyesee

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Re: John William Tomkins
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 04 December 10 10:32 GMT (UK) »
The Morning Post and Gazetteer (London, England), Thursday, August 27, 1801
DIED - On Saturday last, at South Lambeth, Mrs Tomkins, wife of Mr Samuel Tomkins

The Morning Post (London, England), Saturday, June 02, 1832
On the 1st John Farly LEITH married Alicia Anne, eldest d/o Samuel - edited

The London Dispatch and People's Political and Social Reformer (London, England), Sunday, December 16, 1838
DIED - On the 26th ult., Mrs Mary Tomkins, of Rotherhithe, in her 87th year, relict of the late Mr. John Tomkins, of the above parish

The Standard (London, England), Saturday, January 13, 1849
DIED - On the 11th inst., at Russell-place, Fitzroy-square, Mr Samuel Tomkins, Esq., aged 87

The Morning Post (London, England), Saturday, August 08, 1857
Editted - On the 5th inst Dr Plarr, of Strasbourg to Mary Jane, youngest d/o the late S Tomkins, Russell-street, Fitzroy-square

Ian C
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

CLAPHAM, PARKINSON, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, FURNER All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
CHALKLEY, OLNEY, Hertfordshire
HARRIS, Essex

Offline K Rees

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Re: John William Tomkins
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 04 December 10 11:05 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Ian,

The Tomkins are a very complicated lot - mainly merchants around London Wall area; however, one branch was in the Walworth, Rotherlithe area.

To add to this, my ancestor Elizabeth Ann Petch left her London area of her parents (Holborn) to marry Samuel Tomkins 1782 at St. Saviour, Southwark, Surrey.

John William Tomkins (b.1755) is definitely his brother, as are nephews John and Samuel (as per Executors of his Will). There is an unmarried William Tomkins of New Broad Street, also a merchant (b.1743- 1827), who also left my ancestor Martha Rees, the daughter of Samuel and Elizabeth Ann Tomkins, an annuity as well as her father..

Regards,

Keith
Rees: innkeeper/farmer/solicitor, Haverfordwest, Wales; Menzies: innkeeper, Glen Lyon, Scotland;
Tomkins: merchants, London;  Lee:  farmers, Watford Village, Northamptonshire; Pocock, teachers, Bristol; Grace: doctors, cricketers, Gloucestershire; Day: lithographers, London; Clark:  teachers, Folkstone.
Banks: farmer/curriers/shoemakers, East Ham, Bermondsey, East End

Offline Valda

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Re: John William Tomkins
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 05 December 10 08:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi


George III's brother the Duke of York would have been old enough to father children in 1763

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Edward,_Duke_of_York_and_Albany


A page was a royal courtier who had domestic duties

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_of_the_Backstairs


The usage of the title 'Honorable'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Honourable


A lady in waiting serves a Queen or princess and is nearly always a member of the nobility with a title - Lady for instance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady-in-waiting



There is no evidence from the Petch baptisms or marriage of a royal connection

2nd December 1763 All Hallows London Wall
Elizabeth Anne daughter of William and Mary Petch

WILLIAM PETCH
MARY ELLIS 
Marriage:  27 JAN 1763   Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London
 
MARY ELLIS PETCH 
Christening:  14 APR 1766   Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster, London
Father:  WILLIAM PETCH 
Mother:  MARY 

GEORGE ELLIS PETCH 
Christening:  10 APR 1768   Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster, London
Father:  WILLIAM PETCH
Mother:  MARY


Prerogative Court of Canterbury will 

Will of George Ellis Petch, Doctor of Physic of Saint James Clerkenwell , Middlesex
Date 22 December 1831
Catalogue reference PROB 11/1793 

It looks likely he was buried at Bunhill Fields


Letters of administration (with the will annexed) were proved on 10th April 1867 in the Principal Registry for Martha Rees who died 20th January 1865 in Australia.


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline K Rees

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Re: John William Tomkins
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 05 December 10 09:53 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Valda,

Yes, now I have to prove that William Petch was a doctor. As for Mary Ellis, I have a copy of her Will as well, which has been "translated" on the open Internet. It does not say that she was a "lady" and it would be hard to trace the Ellis line, as it seems to be very common.  I have George Ellis Petch's Will. Very hard to read; however, that is what I am about to do, as Who do you think you are? Aust version has just finished.  More importantly I have the Will of his wife Mary Petch, nee Walford of Banbury, where she leaves about 22000 pounds to relatives and charities 19/4/1831 [11/2131] ( I will check that Will out again for the exact amount. It would seem that they remained childless.

I did find the baptisms for their 3 kids; however, not the original transcripts.

Valda, I appreciate your help and willingness to search and share.

I do have a portrait of the "Hon. Dorothy Petcher" and some old folklore, which I have proved has some errors, but then also some "close" facts.

I working on the folklore to decided on facts v. exaggerated Australian folklore.

Depending on your interest, as I know that you help many people, I am prepared to share it with you, as I appreciate a critical eye.

Regards,

Keith
Rees: innkeeper/farmer/solicitor, Haverfordwest, Wales; Menzies: innkeeper, Glen Lyon, Scotland;
Tomkins: merchants, London;  Lee:  farmers, Watford Village, Northamptonshire; Pocock, teachers, Bristol; Grace: doctors, cricketers, Gloucestershire; Day: lithographers, London; Clark:  teachers, Folkstone.
Banks: farmer/curriers/shoemakers, East Ham, Bermondsey, East End

Offline K Rees

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Re: John William Tomkins
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 05 December 10 10:08 GMT (UK) »
Valda,

Yes, I have Marta Rees, nee Tomkins estate from HMCS even though I paid and they said that they did not have it. Then with ancestry.com new Probate, it showed up that they should have had it, so they conducted another search with success.

I also have the Wills of Samuel Tomkins (grandfather) and his bachelor brother  William and both left Martha annuities.
Also her husband John Rees of Loo Choo Wales (d.1838), and his dad David Rees of Greenhill Haverfordwest (d.1837).

So just going through my info and trying to put it into some chronological sequence.

Regards,

Keith
Rees: innkeeper/farmer/solicitor, Haverfordwest, Wales; Menzies: innkeeper, Glen Lyon, Scotland;
Tomkins: merchants, London;  Lee:  farmers, Watford Village, Northamptonshire; Pocock, teachers, Bristol; Grace: doctors, cricketers, Gloucestershire; Day: lithographers, London; Clark:  teachers, Folkstone.
Banks: farmer/curriers/shoemakers, East Ham, Bermondsey, East End

Offline Valda

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Re: John William Tomkins
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 05 December 10 13:07 GMT (UK) »
Hi Keith


The difficulty is equating an Elizabeth Ann Petch seeming daughter of William and Mary nee Ellis and an Honorable Dorothy Petcher - totally different name.

Have you been able to date the portrait?

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk