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Topic: Durness Parish Register (Read 23819 times)
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IanB
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 92
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Maggie,
Subsequent to my previous post, I took a look at the IGI and notice that William Mackay and Janet Mackenzie appear to have had 9 children, as follows:
Grace 13 Mar 1821; Ann 9 Feb 1824; Alexander 13 Mar 1826; Christina 25 Aug 1828; William 3 Apr 1831; Janet Ann 5 Jun 1834; John Mackenzie 21 Jan 1838; Isabella 27 Jul 1840; Justina Anderson Mackenzie 23 Feb 1844. Therefore, there is no reason to doubt the marriage date.
Ian
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Morrison, MacKay, MacCulloch, Sutherland, Dingwall, MacLeod, Donn, Calder,
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MaggieAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 31
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Ian - that's fantastic. I only had 3 children, which was puzzling, as it was Grace 1821, Isabella 1840 and Justina 1844 - 20 years almost between 1821 and 1840, so your news is wonderful, as it now fits in.
Now as I said in my original email, supposedly there is a connection to Rob Donn, but where?? I have Rob Donn (1714-1778) marrying when? Janet Calder (1716-1777) - the only children I have listed for them are Isobel Donn Calder, Christian Donn Calder, John Donn Mackay Calder (died bet 1777-1798 while in army service in India & Ceylon) and George Calder b.1769. I do not have DOB for Isobel, Christian & John.
Is there any chance you can put me on the right road please Ian, as reading through the emails listed, you are very knowledgeable.
Thank you for your interest, time and effort - very much appreciated.
Sincerely Maggie
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IanB
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 92
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Maggie,
As you may know, there is some controversy regarding Rob Donn's correct surname. The Mackays claim he is one of them and he is often referred to as Rob Donn Mackay. However, in the Parish Register, which only began in 1764, he and his relatives are recorded as Down (i.e. Donn) or Calder. The only one of his children that I could see in the register is George, born in 1769, and the father is shown as "Rob Down, poet".
The transcription of the register by Hew Morrison, of which several members have photcopies and some have a digital copy, ends in 1814 - for reasons that are not clear, since it would have continued to be maintained until 1855.
The other children of his for which I have partial records are Christiina (or Christian); James; John; Isobel; and Mary. I have guessed at their dates of birth, based on marriage dates or birth dates of their children. I believe he did have other children but they are not recorded in any books that I have.
I think it is only natural for us to wish to be proud of our ancestors and often there are traditions passed down that turn out to be incorrect. However,I'm not suggesting that yours is, because there are some children of Rob Donn not accounted for and you may very well be related. If you ever do confirm this or manage to discover more about Rob Donn's descendants, please let me know.
BTW, Rob Donn's wife was Janet Mackay.
Ian
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Morrison, MacKay, MacCulloch, Sutherland, Dingwall, MacLeod, Donn, Calder,
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MaggieAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 31
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear Ian:
Thank you for your information.
Questions:
1. I have found the following spellings recorded, "Donn", "Donne", "Donn" and "Down"?
2. I have also noted the controversy of whether it is "Rob Donn Calder", "Rob Down" or Rob Donn Mackay?
3. Where did the name "Donn" come from or does it have a Gaelic meaning?
4. His brother was named "Donald Dubh" - what does that mean? (Donald the Brown some say). Any other siblings?
5. It is also suggested that he was adopted by the Mackays?
6. Was it Janet Mackay (nee Mackay) he married and do you know DOM?
7. Wd love to receive the partial records you have if that would not be too much trouble.
8. I will of course let you know of any information I am able to "dig up" (so to speak). With kind regards Maggie
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IanB
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 92
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Maggie,
I will try to answer your questions:
1,2,3 &4. “Donn” in Gaelic means brown. When applied to a person, I think it meant brown hair but many people would have had brown hair so perhaps it also referred to complexion. At that time, in every day conversation, people did not use surnames, presumably because of the duplication of names. Just imagine how many John Mackays there would have been. Instead, they were referred to and identified by an “eke” name. In the parish register, the minister refers to them as “aliases”. These eke names took several forms, the principal ones being patronymics (e.g. son of X, or mac [father’s name] mhic [grandfather’s name]) and physical attributes (e.g. Donn/brown; Dubh/black; Ban/white/fair; Og/smaller/younger) Sometimes the eke name is retained for several generations and takes on the fuction of a family name, as was the case with Rob Donn. His father and brothers all had the eke name Donn. The siblings that I know of are: William, Donald, and Gilbert.
Two entries in the PR for 1765 might illustrate the point:
“Hugh Calder, alias Down, in Balamhulich, christened Mary”
“Gilbert Calder, alias Down, in Teagisgil, John”
(Gilbert was one of Rob’s brothers. I don’t know who Hugh was.)
The Gaelic used in the Durness Parish Register, and several other places, was mostly phonetic representations. For example “Down” appears to be fairly close to how “Donn” would be pronounced. However, I think Gaelic is difficult to represent phonetically and “Donn” might also be represented by “Don-yuh”, or somewhere between the two.
There were many Calders in the parish of Durness, and elsewhere in the North of Scotland. They were often called Ekel. I do not know whether they were Mackays but I doubt that they were descended from Aodh (from whom the clan gets its name). Then, again, neither were most “Mackays”. They just assumed the name when a surname became required. They would probably have been adherents of that clan at one time.
5. I do not think he was adopted by the Mackays. When he was a young lad, he was taken into the service of John Mackay of Claiseneach, or, as he was known in Gaelic, Iain mac Eachain ‘ic Iain, a cousin of the Chief. Iain lived at Muisel in Strathmore and was Manager of the chief’s cattle business. Rob Donn was a cowherd and lived at the main house among the servants.
6. Yes his wife’s name was Janet Mackay, daughter of Thomas Mackay. I do not know the marriage date. It would have been before the PR commenced.
7. My records are in a data base – FTM. I have not been able to discover how to extract certain parts of information and transmit them electronically, other than to someone who has compatible software. What do you use?
Ian
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Morrison, MacKay, MacCulloch, Sutherland, Dingwall, MacLeod, Donn, Calder,
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MaggieAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 31
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you so much IanB:
1. Understand.
2. Do you have DOB/DOD or DOM's for his siblings?
3. It is difficult to ensure you have the right name when it is phoenetic. I was looking for a "Perry" and it was recorded as "Pirrie"!!!
4. He was very young when he went to live with John Mackay - do you know how old he was?
5. Thomas Mackay - any DOB/DOM/DOD or wife's name?
6. Yes I have FTM as well.
Thank you once again. Sincerely Maggie
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IanB
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 92
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Maggie,
I am on vacation and will try to answer when I return and have access to my files. I wsill also try to isolate the dependents and ancestors and siblings of Rob Donn and send you a ftm file. Would you please send me your Email address by PM.
Kind regards.
Ian
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Morrison, MacKay, MacCulloch, Sutherland, Dingwall, MacLeod, Donn, Calder,
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MaggieAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 31
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Ian:
As requested, email address is:
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« Last Edit: Thursday 02 August 07 23:18 UTC (UK) by MaggieAnne »
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IanB
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 92
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks, Maggie. If you are concerned about your Email address being on the list permanently, so to speak, perhaps you should try to edit this post and send me a personal message.
Ian
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Morrison, MacKay, MacCulloch, Sutherland, Dingwall, MacLeod, Donn, Calder,
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MaggieAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 31
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Ian - how to I go about doing that?
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MaggieAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 31
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Carol, but how do I delete the message I already sent?
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KateW
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 336
Gt gt Granny Susannah and Edward James 1864
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Maggie,
I hope I can help you. Go to the message where you put your email address. On the top right hand side there should be a 'modify' button. Click on that and your original posting comes back and you can change what you wrote.
I have done this several times and I think that was what I did!!!
Hope it works. (Yes, it does. I have just tried it to see!!!  )
KateW
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Devon:- Hunt, Parnell & Dennis;
Surrey:- Candler, Read;
Bucks:- Garner, Adams, Perkins:
Portsmouth:- Fayrer, Taylor & Bucklan;
Liverpool:- Garner, Wolstenholme & Case;
Llandovery, Dyfed:- Nicholas;
Aberaeron, Ceredigion:-Lewis, Davies, Rees;
Durness, Sutherland, Scotland:- Whyte, Ross, Mackay.
Aberdeen, Scotland:- Pittendreigh/igh/each.
Kent:-Millen, Brenchley, Cotton, Quin;
Netherlands & Kent:- van Steelandt;
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MaggieAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 31
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks KateW - it worked.
It was nice of you to suggest it!!!!
Sincerely
Maggie
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