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Topic: HELP!! (Read 649 times)
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shassan
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Posts: 40
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HELP!!
« on: Thursday 21 April 05 09:07 BST (UK) » |
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I have been trying very hard to locate my gr grandfather John Kerr b about 1859. I have located him in the 1891 census, Lanarkshire which gives his birth place as Perthshire. He was married to Agnes Cunningham 1883, Bothwell and His parents were William and Mary Kerr nee Busby m July 1845 Dunipace, Stirling. I have no other details regarding siblings etc. Due to my location I am unable to access the 1861 census for Perthshire or Stirling. I would greatly appreciate any information locatingregarding his life before 1883
Regards
Sharon
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Busby - Ireland, Barony, Stirlingshire
Buchanan - Scotland, Durham
Cunningham - Lanarkshire
Ferguson - Belfast
Kerr - Dunipace, Denny, Perthshire, Paisley, Motherwell, Hamilton, Maryhill
McCulloch - Glasgow, Blantyre
Morrow - Ireland
Murray - Ireland, Stirlingshire
O'Hare - Glasgow, Ireland
Park - Ireland, Durham, Blantyre
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apanderson
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1040
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Re: HELP!!
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 21 April 05 12:42 BST (UK) » |
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Hi Sharon,
Do you think this could be Your John Kerr on the 1881 Cencus?
It states that this person was a lodger, that might be the way he met his future wife as you said they were maried in Bothwell.
It also says that he was born in Glasgow which doesn't match up with the details you already have from the 1891 Cencus
Dwelling: Oilwork Row 3 Nackerty Row
Census Place: Bothwell, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203616 GRO Ref Volume 625-1 EnumDist 9 Page 30
Grant MILLARD, Married, Male, Age 38, Birthplace England
Rel: Head
Jane MILLARD, Married, Female, Age 38, Birthplace England
Rel: Wife
Elizabeth MILLARD, Unmarried, Female, Age 15,
Birthplace Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland.
Rel: Daur
Occ: General Servt
John MILLARD, Unmarried, Male, Age 14
Birthplace Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Coal Miner
John KERR, Unmarried, Male, Age 21
Birthplace Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Lodger
Occ: Coal Miner
Martin SWEENEY, Unmarried, Male, Age 68
Birthplace Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland.
Anne.
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shassan
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 40
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Re: HELP!!
« Reply #2 on: Friday 22 April 05 09:32 BST (UK) » |
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Thanks heaps Anne
This could very well be my John Kerr. He seems like a hard man to track down. Not being from Scotland, I tend to get a little confused where counties and districts are in comparison to each other, although I do try to make an effort in working it out.
On John and Agnes Kerrs marriage certificate in 1883, their addresses are Smellie's Land Muirmadkin, Mossend. He, a coal miner and she, a weaver. His father, William Kerr is noted as being an engine keeper at Paper Mill. I do remember somewhere looking at an old map that mentioned Paper Mill. Is this the name of a little village or is it a place of work? Like I said, I'm not familiar with these places.
In the 1891 census John Kerr is listed as having four sons, William b 1885, Thomas b 1887, Samuel b 1888 and Robert b 1889,however it seems that they have vanished between this census and the next. I know they had at least another four or five children in between, one being Mary, my grand mother b 1892 and Eizabeth
b 1894, Dalziel. Elizabeth was born in New Camp Rd. Perhaps they were in a poor house in the later part of the 1890's, although I can't locate one that has their names recorded or they could be living with other relies due to financial reasons.
My grand mother did tell my mother that her father had recorded her as being older than she actually was so that she could be employed in the coal mines at the age of eleven. I don't know if they were that mean back then!!
What are your thoughts on these matters?
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Busby - Ireland, Barony, Stirlingshire
Buchanan - Scotland, Durham
Cunningham - Lanarkshire
Ferguson - Belfast
Kerr - Dunipace, Denny, Perthshire, Paisley, Motherwell, Hamilton, Maryhill
McCulloch - Glasgow, Blantyre
Morrow - Ireland
Murray - Ireland, Stirlingshire
O'Hare - Glasgow, Ireland
Park - Ireland, Durham, Blantyre
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Lady Macbeth
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Posts: 121
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Re: HELP!!
« Reply #3 on: Friday 22 April 05 11:11 BST (UK) » |
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Hi, I had a quick look on the LDS site for possible children of William Kerr and Mary Busby and found the following.
Samuel CARR 20 Apr 1857 Strathblane Stirling
Robert KERR 31 Jan 1863 Denny Stirling
Mary KERR 29 Jan 1861 Abbey (Paisley) Renfrew
Robert KERR 3 Jul 1858 Abbey (Paisley) Renfrew
Andrew CARR 30 Nov 1845 Free Church Dunipace Stirling
All or some of these may be siblings. I think Andrew must be. If so, they certainly moved around a bit. You should be able see most of the birth certs for these on ScotlandsPeople and might be able to find death certs for them too.
I also looked on LDS for children of John Kerr and Agnes Cunningham and found up to 17, a lot in Motherwell, which I am assuming are the children you mentioned. I would try and find death certs for these as, if they died young, you should be able to trace their movements, and at least you know if they died or 'vanished'. I'm sure a lot of mine were abducted by aliens or abandoned in fields!
Beware of strange spelling of the name. I would also try Carr and Keir etc.
The 1871 census is also now available on ScotlandsPeople, if you haven't already tried that and the 1861 is due in summer (but don't hold your breath).
Good luck
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Gegan, Geoghegan, Gagan, or any variation whatsoever in Ireland (particularly Co Offaly/Kings Co) and Scotland;
Symons and Symon in Angus, Perthshire and Aberdeenshire, Scotland;
McKenna in Ireland and Scotland;
Wilkie in Kincardine and Angus, Scotland
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apanderson
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1040
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Re: HELP!!
« Reply #4 on: Friday 22 April 05 23:09 BST (UK) » |
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Sharon,
Some of my ancestors came from a place called Muirmadzean or Muirmadyon in Lanarkshire. (Bothwell Parish) I'm presuming this might be the same place you mentioned on your earlier post as Muirmadkin. I've had a look at some old maps and although the spelling is differently, it's the same place. Whichever way it's spelt, it's pronounced Muirmaddyen.
My ancestor (William Pollock and his wife Jean Allan) lived there and their 6 children were born between 1800 and 1808. I found their marriage and all the births in the OPR's for Bothwell. I ended up reading through the film copies of the original registers as two of these children were listed as both being born in the same year - four months apart! There had been a mistake on the LDS transcriptions (and also on Scotland's People), one had been born in 1806 and the other in 1808.
Where are you from? I'm local pretty local to all these areas, by car, each area you've mentioned is no more that 30 minutes away from each other although back then I don't know how long it would have taken!
If there's anything else I can help you with, just let me know.
Good Luck in the meantime.
Anne
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shassan
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 40
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Re: HELP!!
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 23 April 05 08:04 BST (UK) » |
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Thanks for your help Lady Macbeth
I use LDS online often as I find this site a good starting point. The unfortunate part is that the information provided is not always correct eventhough source numbers are included. I too have looked for other children of John Kerr and agnes and have checked the majority of them, most of which turned out to be correct although the dates were not. I have been checking infant deaths for these children but very strangely enough, haven't come across any as yet. The repeated $16 only goes so far.
However I am unable to find any record of Andrew Carr on th OPRs or LDS (online)I did find a death certificate for Mary Kerr nee Busby. She died in 1896 @ Larbert. William was already deceased.
It will be great when the 1861 census is available, but you are right. I won't hold my breath.
Thanks again for your help
Kind regards
Sharon
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Busby - Ireland, Barony, Stirlingshire
Buchanan - Scotland, Durham
Cunningham - Lanarkshire
Ferguson - Belfast
Kerr - Dunipace, Denny, Perthshire, Paisley, Motherwell, Hamilton, Maryhill
McCulloch - Glasgow, Blantyre
Morrow - Ireland
Murray - Ireland, Stirlingshire
O'Hare - Glasgow, Ireland
Park - Ireland, Durham, Blantyre
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shassan
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 40
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Re: HELP!!
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 23 April 05 08:49 BST (UK) » |
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Hi again Anne
All those different spellings. It's no wonder I'm a tad confused.
I'm from Australia and my grandparents Mary Kerr and William McCulloch arrived in Sydney Australia, 1920. My mother said her parents rarely spoke about their lives in Scotland, so she is unable to tell me much.
I had never thought much about their families in Scotland until I found a photo of a group of women taken in Crieff in the early 30's. There were remarkable similarities between these women and my grandmother. One of which would have passed for a twin (I've already checked that out-no go). So needless to say curiosity has the better of me. I would love nothing more than to travel over to Scotland and bury my head in all of those records that are available, but Scotlandspeople will have do for now.
I really appreciate your help and I certainly will take you up on your offer of help. I have so many questions to ask regarding the who's, why's and when's that you probably had wished you had never offered.
Kind regards
Sharon
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Logged
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Busby - Ireland, Barony, Stirlingshire
Buchanan - Scotland, Durham
Cunningham - Lanarkshire
Ferguson - Belfast
Kerr - Dunipace, Denny, Perthshire, Paisley, Motherwell, Hamilton, Maryhill
McCulloch - Glasgow, Blantyre
Morrow - Ireland
Murray - Ireland, Stirlingshire
O'Hare - Glasgow, Ireland
Park - Ireland, Durham, Blantyre
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apanderson
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1040
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Re: HELP!!
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 23 April 05 14:12 BST (UK) » |
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Not at all Sharon!
I have the British Vital Records CD's (from LDS). Sometime over the weekend I'll have a look and see if I can find anything that would match up.
You mentioned one of your ancestors had died in Larbert in your post to Lady Macbeth, Larbert is only five minutes from where I live. If the weather keeps up, I'll go and see if I can find any graves with the names you mentioned. It's my hobby these days - sometimes you get information from gravestones which you would otherwise not be aware of, like names of children who had died in infancy.
Will let you know.
Anne
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shassan
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 40
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Re: HELP!!
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 24 April 05 10:07 BST (UK) » |
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Dear Anne
I can't help myself, I dragged the credit card out AGAIN and bought another 30 credits on Scotlandspeople and what a great decision it was. After looking closely at Mary Kerrs death certificate I noticed the informant was a grand daughter, Rachel Kerr ( not one that I had come across previously). I did a few searches and found William, Mary and Rachel on the 1891 census @ Denny. Both William and Mary were born in Ireland. I then found Rachels birth certificate. Her mother was Mary Kerr (Rachel was Illegitimate) and then I found William Kerrs death cert, 1894. He died from Blight age 70 and the informant was Samuel Kerr (son).
That was the best spent 6 pounds yet!!
So if you do go grave hunting (also a hobby of mine, but not a hobby that my husband and children can come to terms with) perhaps you may come across a few more Kerrs.
Thanks yet again.
Sharon
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Busby - Ireland, Barony, Stirlingshire
Buchanan - Scotland, Durham
Cunningham - Lanarkshire
Ferguson - Belfast
Kerr - Dunipace, Denny, Perthshire, Paisley, Motherwell, Hamilton, Maryhill
McCulloch - Glasgow, Blantyre
Morrow - Ireland
Murray - Ireland, Stirlingshire
O'Hare - Glasgow, Ireland
Park - Ireland, Durham, Blantyre
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