tn17's Scavenger Hunt... Everyone Welcome To Join In

[Tephra]

Welcome to this weeks Scavenger Hunt..... and before you start, I do recommend you read it through fully...... and then go back and read it through again - this one could be a bit tricky!!

Good Luck and Good Hunting

Barbara


                                            ******************************

Eliza Watts?

My great-grandmother Eliza Watts married John McMahon at the Sardinian Chapel, St Giles on 10 December 1905. At the time, she was 22 years age, and living at 6 Castle St, St Giles. Her father was given as Charles Watts, Boot Finisher.

Through some help on Rootschat, I've been able to find Eliza with her parents on the 1901 Census at 4 Parker St, St Giles. For the sake of clarity, here they are:

1901 Census
4 Parker Street, Bloomsbury and St Giles South, London
All born London St Giles
Charles Watts Head M 42 Shoe Maker (Cutter)
Eliza Wife M 41
Eliza daur S 17 Shop Girl (Boot Warehouse)
Arthur Son 8
Jessy daur 6
Matilda daur S 14
RG13; Piece 238; Folio 90; Pg 1

I've also been able to find Charles Watts, his wife Eliza and two of their children on the 1911 (19 Wild St, St Giles). That census states that they have been married since 1882.

The problem is, I can't find anything definitive for the family earlier than 1897, when Alice Annie Watts, Eliza's sister, was born. I've scoured the 1891 thoroughly, but can't track them down.

To help alleviate some of the confusion, I have ordered birth certs for two of the children I know to be born to Charles and Eliza. They are:

* Helen Susan Watts, b 22 Sep 1901. The mother's maiden name is listed as 'Lane', but the informant is a next door neighbour who was present at the birth. Haven't found any marriages that look as though they line up.
* Alice Annie Watts, b 9 Feb 1897. On this certificate, Charles's name and occupation are listed, then crossed out. The mother Eliza's name is listed as "Eliza Watts, formerly           ", with the formerly also crossed out. 

(ADDED at nt17's request:  On Annie's birth certificate, no mother's maiden name was given at all. It simply reads 'Eliza Watts formerly' followed by a space, with formerly then crossed out [along with Charles' details] ).

Eliza was the sole witness. Seems to me to be a case where they weren't married and Charles couldn't be listed on the certificate as he wasn't present. However, what's interesting seems to me to be that no maiden name was listed at all.

However, in addition to all that, blind luck led me to trace down an Eliza Watts, born on 18 October 1885 to a mother Eliza Watts in the Westminster Workhouse. That same Eliza (snr) also had a daughter Matilda on 29 January 1888.

This matches up age-wise with the Eliza and Matilda Watts on the 1901 census. I have found the christenings of both Eliza and Matilda on Ancestry, and neither list the father's name. The father's name is also not listed on the 1885 Eliza's birth certificate. However, Eliza's trip to the Westminster Workhouse in 1888 indicates that she took her 4 year old son, Charles Watts, there with her.

I can't find that Eliza on 1891 (her last known address, 12 Rose St, is uninhabited by then), or her and her children at any stage subsequent.

What I'm hoping for from the scavenger hunt are some ideas to help me prove/disprove whether the family in the 1901 census is in any way related to the Westminster Workhouse Eliza. I'm aware that if they are one and the same, it seems highly unusual that the Workhouse Eliza would be going by the surname Watts but not seemingly with Charles. However, the Eliza that registered her daughter Annie in 1897 gave no maiden name for herself...

Any help or guidance on this would be very much appreciated. I'm aware that the information might be slightly confusing, or is underpinned by certificates/documents on Ancestry, so I'll make sure I'm about as much as possible.

Some earlier relevant threads are also listed below, but I think the information above probably captures them well enough:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,506754.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,248134.msg1366097.html

[toni*]

Hello 

[tn17]

Hi Toni (and other hunters)

I'll be about for a little while to help and to answer any questions you might have!

[toni*]

Who were the witnesses to Elizas wedding ?
That’s quite a gap between Eliza and Arthur I was going to say then I saw Matilda why is she listed last?
But its still quite a gap 6 years

The 1875 registration act required unmarried fathers to be present when registering their children’s births so maybe he wasn’t when Alices birth was registered that’s why they were crossed out
Maybe Eliza (mother) assume the name Watts and she was in fact her maiden name
Maybe the children are under this name
I think the registrar started writing the certificate and when it came to Eliza giving her maiden name she might have said oh we are not married hence the fact that everything is crossed out
You could (and still can)  call yourself by what name you chose as long as it want for fraudulent purposes
What does Matildas christening details  say ?

[tn17]

Who were the witnesses to Elizas wedding ?
That’s quite a gap between Eliza and Arthur I was going to say then I saw Matilda why is she listed last?
But its still quite a gap 6 years

The 1875 registration act required unmarried fathers to be present when registering their children’s births so maybe he wasn’t when Alices birth was registered that’s why they were crossed out
Maybe Eliza (mother) assume the name Watts and she was in fact her maiden name
Maybe the children are under this name
I think the registrar started writing the certificate and when it came to Eliza giving her maiden name she might have said oh we are not married hence the fact that everything is crossed out
You could (and still can)  call yourself by what name you chose as long as it want for fraudulent purposes
What does Matildas christening details  say ?

The witnesses at the 1905 wedding were William and Nellie Donovan (John McMahon's uncle and aunt) and Annie Flynn. Not sure how she fits in.

I'm slightly confused, but I think that was my interpretation of Alice's birth cert as well. Either the maiden name is the point at which it became apparent that her and Charles weren't married, so it went unwritten, or something odd was going on.

The christening of Matilda Watts, daughter of the Workhouse Eliza, occured on 10 Feb 1888.

born 29 Jan 1888, Matilda Watts, daughter of Eliza Watts, 12 Rose St, Jam Maker.

[lizdb]

What happened to Alice Annie?

You call her Eliza's sister - have you evidence to this efect? She is not with the family (ELiza's family) in 1901.
Have we proof she is a child of the same Eliza?

[tn17]

What happened to Alice Annie?

You call her Eliza's sister - have you evidence to this efect? She is not with the family (ELiza's family) in 1901.
Have we proof she is a child of the same Eliza?

It seems as though she died later in 1897 or 1898. She was also born at 4 Parker Street, where the family was living in 1901.

[lizdb]

No death reg ......... 

Have you evidence she died - or is it an assumption?

[tn17]

Hi Liz,
Two death regs that look possible are:

Death: Alice WATTS aged 0
 Jun Qtr 1898 Holborn Vol 1b Page 409

and

Alice WATTS aged 0
Sep Qtr 1897 St Giles Vol 1b Page 397

The address and crossed out details on her birth certificate matches up with the 1901 census entry for the rest of the family. That census entry seems to be the only one with the same father's name and occupation as on Eliza and John's marriage certificate.