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Topic: Hatfield (Read 1165 times)
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TennesseeTim
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 15
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Hatfield
« on: Friday 17 September 04 19:14 UTC (UK) » |
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Dear RootsChat Community.
My name is Tim Hatfield. I live in Tennessee, USA.
I came across your website while searching for Hatfield genealogy, and I write with the hope that you will possibly answer a question for me regarding my family name.
I have done a great deal of genealogy research on my family name in the States. My interest has broadened, and now relates to the history of how the name was originally adopted.
Please allow me to state a few things that I believe to be true, followed by my question. If any of my facts are incorrect, I will greatly appreciate being corrected.
* The name Hatfield evolved from the name Haethfeld, which in the Saxon language meant Field of Heather.
* The Saxon King Edgar gave the monks of Ely land to build their monastery in the area known then as Haethfeld in the year 970.
* The monks brought with them 54 families, which I assume to be of Saxon heritage, to settle the area.
* The Hatfield House contains the original foundation of that monastery, and the town of Hatfield grew nearby.
* Another village called Hatfield lies east of York, north of Leeds, in Yorkshire. That area, north of Doncaster, was known in ancient times as Meicen, and was a Celtic-Welsh stronghold against the Saxon invaders.
My question is: Did medieval families begin adopting their family names from the places they lived before or after the Norman Conquest? If before, it would mean that early families who lived in the Haethfeld area near Hertfordshire, including many present day Hatfields, are probably of Saxon ancestry? Or, were family place names already in use at the time that King Edgar gave the monks the land in Haethfeld, meaning that many present day Hatfields are probably of Celtic ancestry? If you're a British Hatfield, do you consider yourself more of Saxon or Celtic ancestry?
I surmised that the former was true until I discovered that another, probably older town of Hatfield, exists in Yorkshire. Now I believe the latter is probably true.
Any help you will provide will be greatly appreciated.
If you have a recommendation of where I might search to find additional answers, that will also be appreciated.
Thanks so much,
Tim Hatfield.
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« Last Edit: Saturday 15 January 05 15:24 UTC (UK) by copyright_editor2 »
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TennesseeTim
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 15
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Re: Hatfield
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 23 September 04 15:36 UTC (UK) » |
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Hi Folks.
Obviously, I made my first question a bit too lengthy.
More simply put, I am wondering which English town and village of Hatfield is the oldest? Did Hatfield families begin adopting their names from the places in which they lived, or did the towns and villages of Hatfield adopt their names from the families who founded or settled them? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
The place name Hatfield is mentioned in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle in the year 680, but was the area named for a family, or did families from the area adopt the place as a name?
And what is the opinion of the British Hatfields? If you have traced your family as far back as they can be followed, where does it begin, in Celtic or in Saxon ancestry, or are there other factors I have failed to consider?
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Tim Hatfield.
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« Last Edit: Saturday 15 January 05 15:24 UTC (UK) by copyright_editor2 »
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LindyLu
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 23
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Re: Hatfield
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 30 September 04 08:45 UTC (UK) » |
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I am no expert on this, but I was reading the history of names in our local library, and mostly people only used first names, and or nicknames originally, unless they were landed gentry.
But once records were starting to be taken people needed to have last names as well, so they usually took the names of the job they were doing, or the town they were living in.
This does not answer your question, but maybe give you a hint!
Lindy
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Parkes in Staffs & Greater London
May in Wiltshire & Greater London
Benson in Essex: Goodman in Kent
Adie in Tower Hamlets
Hughes, Holmes, Lane, Johnson, Geary.
London, Middlx, Kent.
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TennesseeTim
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 15
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Re: Hatfield
« Reply #3 on: Friday 01 October 04 07:29 UTC (UK) » |
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Hello Lindy.
Thank you for the input. It takes many tidbits to make a morsel.
What I have discovered through research is that the village of Hatfield in Yorkshire seems to be several centuries older than the town of Hatfield in Hertfordshire. That area near Doncaster, mentioned in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle in 633 and 680 as being in the ancient British kingdom of Meicen, was obviously there before families began adopting place names.
That begs the question; Is there a connection between the village of Hatfield in Yorkshire and the town of Hatfield in Hertfordshire? There seems to be in the form of a woman called Etheldreda, daughter of the King of East Anglia, and wife of King Ecgfrith of Northumbria. She would certainly have had knowledge of an area known as Hatfield within her husband's Kingdom. In 673 she either left, or was divorced by her husband, and sent to the island of Ely, where she was given land, which she promptly gave to Wilfred, Bishop of York, to build a monastery for a group of his monks. Three centuries later, around 970, that same order of monks, then the Abbots of Ely, were given land to build another monastery by King Edgar in the area of present day Hatfield, Hertfordshire. There doesn't appear to have been a town there before the monks began building their monastery, the remains of which make up part of the foundation of Hatfield House, so it's within the realm of possibility that they named that area after the area in Yorkshire. It's more probable that only the Bishops of Ely know for certain.
Thanks again,
Tim Hatfield.
I am no expert on this, but I was reading the history of names in our local library, and mostly people only used first names, and or nicknames originally, unless they were landed gentry.
But once records were starting to be taken people needed to have last names as well, so they usually took the names of the job they were doing, or the town they were living in.
This does not answer your question, but maybe give you a hint!
Lindy
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Rick
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4148
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Re: Hatfield
« Reply #4 on: Friday 01 October 04 13:32 UTC (UK) » |
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Tim
There have been many archaeological finds in Hatfield which pre-date the Saxon period, including evidence of Palaeolithic and Bronze Age settlement. The Old Great North Road, which is Roman in origin, also runs through the town.
Settlements tend to evolve over time, so perhaps the monastery was built to serve an existing population.
Rick
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TennesseeTim
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 15
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Re: Hatfield
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 10 October 04 06:02 UTC (UK) » |
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Hi Rick.
Thank you for the info.
Though as with all the other bits of fact I have received in this search, it creates more questions than it answers.
Author Barbara Hutton in her book Hatfield and its People, states that since both the Great North Road, and the Saxon Herepaeth route, down the valley of the river Colne towards Harefield in Middlesex, all "keep clear of the site of the town which...was probably not in existence when they were made".
However, records show that King Edgar in 970 re-founded the Abbey of Ely, and "gave Hatfield, along with the other estates of the area, to the monks". Obviously at that time, there was, at the very least, an estate or a manor there known as the Saxon Haethfeld.
If the very name Hatfield is the evolution of a Norman pronounciation of Hetfelle, the Saxon Haethfeld, then one could conclude that the town, village, manor, or area was already there at the time the Normans invaded. It might be further concluded that the post-Roman people who settled there were Saxon.
The big mystery to me then is, of the many surnames listed in the Domesday Book of 1086 from the area that is now Hatfield, why is there no mention of Hetfelle or Haethfeld? If people who were living there didn't adopt Hatfield as a surname, then who did?
Does anyone know the tradition which would cause a family to adopt a place name, and why? I can comprehend a person using a surname Butcher, or Baker, or Taylor living in Hatfield, but why would a person living in medieval Nottingham, for example, adopt the surname Hatfield?
Thanks again for your help.
Tim Hatfield.
Tim
There have been many archaeological finds in Hatfield which pre-date the Saxon period, including evidence of Palaeolithic and Bronze Age settlement. The Old Great North Road, which is Roman in origin, also runs through the town.
Settlements tend to evolve over time, so perhaps the monastery was built to serve an existing population.
Rick
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Rick
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4148
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Re: Hatfield
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 10 October 04 09:58 UTC (UK) » |
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Tim
The Roman Old Great North Road, runs through the old town of Hatfield, and it fact passes the gates of the Hatfield Estate! I have not read Barbara's book, though I am aware of it.
We should remember that Dark Age history went largely unrecorded, so the assertion that a settlement didn't exist there at the time of the building of the Great North Road, should be treated with caution, especially as there was a Roman settlement at Welwyn (also on the Great North Road), which was only discovered in the 20th Century. There have also been some interesting recent Bronze age finds at Hatfield made during development of previously untouched sites.
Surnames were not used by the general population until the Middle ages, so names mentioned in the Domesday book were not surnames as we understand them. Perhaps people adopted place names when they moved away from an area, thus a Robert from Hatfield living in Nottingham would call himself Robert HATFIELD to differentiate himself from other Roberts.
There are at least 4 Hatfields mentioned in the Domesday Book; in Herefordshire, Hertfordshire, Essex and Yorkshire.
Best Regards
Rick
Born and bred in Hatfield, Hertfordshire.
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« Last Edit: Sunday 10 October 04 12:31 UTC (UK) by Rick »
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TennesseeTim
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 15
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Re: Hatfield
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 12 October 04 17:42 UTC (UK) » |
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Hello Rick.
Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge, and thanks again for looking up the surname Hatfield in the phone book for Hatfield, Hertfordshire. I'm still reeling over the fact that there are none there.
What that proves is that there is not a solitary well from which the Hatfields flow. Many American Hatfields, naturally following the American model, believe that if they trace their roots back to the source, it will lead them to the town of your birth. That is simply not true, or there should still be many British Hatfields residing there.
Many Americans trace their lineage back to their ancestor who first climbed aboard a vessel sailing for this continent, then call their search complete, because they are less interested in what happened before the migration here. I take quite the opposite approach. Surely, all Hatfields share something in common, but if not a place of origin, then what? Is there a common thread through the four areas known as Hatfield in the Domesday Book? The one in Yorkshire was known as an ancient Celtic stronghold, while the others were related to Saxons.
My larger curiosity extends to which great races of Britain affected the ancient Hatfields? Were the people from whom I am descended Celtic? How were they affected by Danes, Angles, Saxons, or Normans? Or, like the people of Wales and Scotland, were they left largely unaffected by the conflicts of greater England? For the answers to any of those questions, I must first know the area in which the first Hatfields lived. I would be very interested to know which area of the UK has the greatest population of Hatfields, and why.
I appreciate your hypothesis that people possibly adopted surnames of the places from which they moved, but I was under the impression that medieval people were tied to their lords and to the land, and were thereford not as free to move about as we are today.
Thanks again Rick.
Tim Hatfield.
Tim
The Roman Old Great North Road, runs through the old town of Hatfield, and it fact passes the gates of the Hatfield Estate! I have not read Barbara's book, though I am aware of it.
We should remember that Dark Age history went largely unrecorded, so the assertion that a settlement didn't exist there at the time of the building of the Great North Road, should be treated with caution, especially as there was a Roman settlement at Welwyn (also on the Great North Road), which was only discovered in the 20th Century. There have also been some interesting recent Bronze age finds at Hatfield made during development of previously untouched sites.
Surnames were not used by the general population until the Middle ages, so names mentioned in the Domesday book were not surnames as we understand them. Perhaps people adopted place names when they moved away from an area, thus a Robert from Hatfield living in Nottingham would call himself Robert HATFIELD to differentiate himself from other Roberts.
There are at least 4 Hatfields mentioned in the Domesday Book; in Herefordshire, Hertfordshire, Essex and Yorkshire.
Best Regards
Rick
Born and bred in Hatfield, Hertfordshire.
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DoCtOr_PePpEr
RootsChat Pioneer
Posts: 1
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Re: Hatfield
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 04 June 05 20:09 UTC (UK) » |
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I myself live in Hatfield near Hatfield house, if you would like anymore further info let me know
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