Redroger's Scavenger Hunt... Everyone Welcome To Join In

[Tephra]

Welcome to this week's Scavenger Hunt......... And this is a first for us, a DNA related Hunt, it's a bit convoluted, but I'm sure you'll be able to work it out.

Good Luck and Good Hunting

Barbara

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                                         LUFFMAN AND PROCTOR

  Known facts: As the Luffman family only arrived in Lincolnshire in 1795 any family cross connection must have happened after that date:

So far I have been unable to find either a widow remarrying or an apparent adoption in the information available in either tree.

If the connection is a relationship between a male Proctor and a female Luffman then to be in my direct line it must be one of these three:

1)Ann Troy nee Walsh married John Luffman (1) 25 December 1797 at Alford Lincs
2)Sarah Sizer married John Luffman(2) before 1818 details unknown
3)Laetitia Burton married Richard Luffman  February 1895 at Boston Lincs

If the connection is a relationship between a male Luffman and a female Proctor then to be in in the direct Proctor line it must be one of these
1)Ann  Nuttal married John Proctor 21st July 1795 at Harmston Lincs
2)Elizabeth Berkett married Joseph Proctor 12th April 1819 at Harmston Lincs
3)Susanna Veysey married William Birkett Proctor 1858 in Leeds West Yorks
4)Mary McCarthy married Charles Proctor 26th December 1896 in Thurgarton Notts
5)Emily May Wilson married Charles Henry Proctor prior to 1929

Luffman Y chromosome DNA test

I have taken a 37 marker Y chromosome DNA test with FTDNA

Back to John Luffman (1) he had two known brothers :
Thomas Luffman(1804-1877) married Jane Smith 13 July 1834 Louth Lincs. No known children
William Luffman(1805-1841) married Frances Hudson Dec 1832 Heapham Lincs
The wedding took place three days after he had committed highway robbery one accomplice was the brother of his wife, the other accomplice was a witness to the wedding. Transported to Australia 1833 cannot have been responsible for any children in England after Dec 1832.

[toni*]

are we missing a bit ?

[Ruskie]

I thought it was just me toni. 

I don't really understand what you're looking for Redroger. Is it how the Luffman and Proctor families connect?

I read it several times but still find it a bit confusing. Sorry.

A few questions:
How do you know that the Luffman family arrived in Lincolnshire in 1795?
What did your DNA test reveal? Are you trying to prove a link between these two names due to the results of this test?
Wouldn't it just be safer and simpler and easier to just work backwards from what you know? You have lists of possible marriages and say the connection "must be one of these" - how do you know? Maybe you've missed a few? 

Apologies if my questions don't make sense - I may have misinterpreted the original question ... I'm struggling with this one.

[toni*]

i now there was a previous thread on the Luffmans in Canada
(can't find the link)


and Redrogers DNA results


http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,529585.0.html

[Ermintrude46]

The trouble is that a DNA test on the male line could relate to a shared forebear thousands of years ago, not just a coincidental presence in Lincolnshire a few hundred years ago.  My daughter and I did some tree tracing for her fiancee for her Christmas present to him just gone (he was convinced his grandad was Scots but we found his male line had been in Birmingham for at least five generations back!).  As part of the pressie, she also got him a DNA test.  The result came back that he was most closely related to present-day Afghanistani males(!)
Ermy

[Ruskie]

and Redrogers DNA results

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,529585.0.html

Gosh, there are 29 pages on that thread.  (maybe when RR pops in he can give us a quick rundown of his DNA results)

[DNA is interesting but really does my head in.  ]
 

PS... um, 'interesting' DNA result Ermy. 

[Redroger]

Right all, I'm back after an interesting 24 hours on businesss other than family history.
To attempt to answer Ruskie's points one by one:
An exhaustive search has found no Luffmans recorded in Lincolnshire prior to the arrival of John Luffman with a unit of the Somerset Militia in 1795. He resigned to marry (it was a fencible unit) and married Ann Troy nee Walsh at Alford in 1797 (Christmas Day).
The Luffman and Proctor males actually share 36/37 Y chromosome markers and are both Haplotype I12b
Both myself and a Proctor researcher have made a detailed unsuccessful attempt to work backwards to find a link.
My actual words are "If the connection is a relationship between a male Proctor and a female Luffman then to be in my direct line it must be etc."
The detail. John Luffman and Ann had three children 1) John b1798 (See below) 2)Thomas b1804 (Married but had no children) and 3) William b1805 (Married 3 days after committing highway robbery, transported for life no children.
The next generation John b1798 married Sarah Sizer b1791 had 5 sons and two daughters between 1818 and 1832
My direct ancestor is his 5th son Richard (my grandfather bc1828) who remarried after an apparently barren first marriage and had my father in 1899 with his second wife Laetitia nee Burton.
Though I bear no responsibility for the similar work on the Proctor tree it was done by an experienced researcher to a similar exhaustive standard though with 5 generations involved.

I hope that has clearly any confusion though I must say I prepared this document earlier this week and asked Tephra when there was a vacancy meaning to refine the submission before posting. When she replied there was an immediate vacancy due to a late cancellation I decided to chance it without edit. My apologies to all concerned.

[toni*]

another question is how sure is anybody of their father? so there may not be a proctor / luffman marriage but a proctor could have got a luffman pregnant and vice versa and he child would be brought up deemed to be the son of the husband of the woman with the er loose morals

[Geoff-E]

If you'd asked this on the Lincs board, I imagine I would have told you a year ago

23 March 1818 at Louth
John LUFFMAN married Sarah SISZOR

Register image (bottom left) http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=723670&iid=119594

You mentioned it already in April http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,527674.msg3823629.html#msg3823629