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Author Topic: St Mary and/or St John Lambeth MI Lookup  (Read 1760 times)

Offline Peter Cockerill

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St Mary and/or St John Lambeth MI Lookup
« on: Monday 10 October 11 08:27 BST (UK) »
Dear Friends,

I am seeking burial record and a transcript of a memorial inscription (gravestone) for Caleb Tilt died 1st July 1844 age 49 yrs;  abode 5 Windmill St. Waterloo. Possibly buried at St John Waterloo or St Mary Lambeth. (Caleb's children were xtened at St Mary's in the 1830s.)

Also for Rebecca Tilt wife of above died 1854 abode 4 Parade St Mary's Lambeth.

Also for William Walker Tilt died 1883 aged 68 yrs living at 127 Lambeth Road (Previously named Church St. No 19) son o9f above Caleb and Rebecca.

Thank you so much for any help with this and advice.
Very best wishes.
Peter


Butler, Ireland.
Caddell, Co. Meath, Ireland.
Cockerill, Hackness, North Yorkshire.
Farrell, Ireland.
Jerningham, Costessy, Norfolk.
Nicholl, Merthyr Mawr, Wales.
Owen, Fulham, London.
Peck, Holt, Denbighshire, Wales.
Peck, Wakefield, Huddersfield,Yorkshire
Tilt Coventry.

Offline Valda

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Re: St Mary and/or St John Lambeth MI Lookup
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 12 October 11 22:31 BST (UK) »
Hi

As explained in your earlier post nearly all central London churchyards were closed by the early 1850s as they were completely overwhelmed by the vast number of burials taking place and were serious health hazards. In the case of St Marys the date looks to be about 1852 with the last burials at St John the Evangelist occuring in 1854 (three Rebeccas that year - Ann Rebecca Hinton, Rebecca Robins and Rebecca Rogerson). Caleb was buried at St John the Evangelist 4th July 1844 aged 50 of Windmill Street.

The London burial grounds website (highly recommended in the guide to Surrey burials on the Rootschat Surrey boards) describes the the churchyard in 1895

'An acre in size. This was laid out as a garden and playground in 1877, and is well kept up by the Lambeth Vestry'

and today

'A tidy open space just south of Waterloo Bridge, a haunt of the homeless, displaced from other areas due to developments in the Waterloo area.'

and has a few photographs of the open space today.

http://www.burial.magic-nation.co.uk/bglambeth.htm

See the guide for the list of Lambeth civic cemteries which replaced the churchyards, their date of opening and the link to Lambeth cemetery office. Lambeth cemetery opened in 1854 and West Norwood in 1837.


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Peter Cockerill

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Re: St Mary and/or St John Lambeth MI Lookup
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 13 October 11 18:12 BST (UK) »
Dear Valda,

Thank you for your help with this I am most grateful. You have been very kind an patient.

Do you happen to know if there is a record of the Monumental Inscriptions for St John Evangelist?

Very many thanks and best wishes.
Peter
Butler, Ireland.
Caddell, Co. Meath, Ireland.
Cockerill, Hackness, North Yorkshire.
Farrell, Ireland.
Jerningham, Costessy, Norfolk.
Nicholl, Merthyr Mawr, Wales.
Owen, Fulham, London.
Peck, Holt, Denbighshire, Wales.
Peck, Wakefield, Huddersfield,Yorkshire
Tilt Coventry.

Offline Valda

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Re: St Mary and/or St John Lambeth MI Lookup
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 13 October 11 20:03 BST (UK) »
Hi

From the administration of Caleb's estate it was valued at around 100 so the family could have erected a gravestone, but if one was erected of any permanence it is likely to have been removed by 1877 when the ground was laid out as a garden, so only a time period of about 33 years when few churchyard monumental inscriptions were transcribed (St Mary Newington would be an example of an exception done slightly later) apart from those of the wealthy since their monuments sold books as other people who could afford to purchase such books were interested in the families of their own class.
A transcription of St Mary Lambeth monuments was done in 1826 and published - online link given in the guide to the book which is now out of copyright but can be viewed. I don't know of any done for St John (certainly couldn't find any online but then it was not such a major church as St Mary's which was the original historic parish church) but you can check with Lambeth Archives for certain - that's the advice given in the burial guide always check local archives for possible indexes and monumental transcriptions that they might hold or know about. The links are given to each archive - Lambeth's is given here.

Lambeth Archives

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/LeisureCulture/LocalHistory/ArchiveGuide0505.htm


Most Londoners viewed the central London area churchyards as very unhealthy places which indeed they largely  increasingly were from at least the late C18th onwards. They were believed to be the cause of many of the diseases and deaths in the area (bad air) and so many Londoners were pleased to see them gone and if not built on turned into gardens and open spaces. St John the Evangelist Waterloo Road was only consecrated  in 1824 so would not have been a churchyard that had decades of overcrowding burials.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=47034

A contemporary description of St Mary Whitechapel churchyard below see link - there are other such descriptions of the state of different churchyards on the London Burial Grounds website which give some indication of the situation in London churchyards in general - in the five year period either side of 1844 at St John the Evangelist Waterloo Road there were only around 6,500 burials and only just over 17,000 burials in the whole of the 30 years it was open - bearing in mind only is a comparison with other churchyards and considering the size of the actual churchyards an awful lot in such a short time span.

http://www.burial.magic-nation.co.uk/bgwhitechapel.htm

St John photographed from the back giving more of an indication of the space around the church - which may have to a certain extent been encroached on overtime though contemproary images don't give the feeling it has been by much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:St_John,_Waterloo_Road,_SE1_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1871891.jpg

and more contemporary images

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0flk/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0fll/

Major city churchyards before they closed and large cemeteries were opened were very different places from their rural or market town counterparts. They are however today, those that remain as laid out gardens and green spaces, very important to London.

St John the Evangelist Waterloo Road

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32445100@N03/4732777298/in/set-72157623787868515


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Peter Cockerill

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Re: St Mary and/or St John Lambeth MI Lookup
« Reply #4 on: Friday 14 October 11 07:46 BST (UK) »
Dear Valda,

Thank you so much forgoing to this trouble for me I am very grateful. As you say there is a limited window of opprtunity. It is a shame and surprise the churches didn't make records at the time of 'closure'. I will contact Lambeth Archives.

Very best wishes.
Peter
Butler, Ireland.
Caddell, Co. Meath, Ireland.
Cockerill, Hackness, North Yorkshire.
Farrell, Ireland.
Jerningham, Costessy, Norfolk.
Nicholl, Merthyr Mawr, Wales.
Owen, Fulham, London.
Peck, Holt, Denbighshire, Wales.
Peck, Wakefield, Huddersfield,Yorkshire
Tilt Coventry.

Offline Valda

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Re: St Mary and/or St John Lambeth MI Lookup
« Reply #5 on: Friday 14 October 11 19:45 BST (UK) »
Hi Peter

Not real they don't do that now. Monumental inscriptions are done by Family History Societies not by the church whether a church stays open or closes.


Regards


Valda

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk