Parents and siblings of Thomas Oates (1792 - 1871)79

[mxmar0]

Hello again

I would discount the Baptism for Thomas Oates I gave you earlier. That poor baby died, and was buried June 6th 1794.......

I have found two other Baptisms though, which need some investigation

George Oates on May 5th 1789 at Nether Chapel, Norfolk Street Independent, Sheffield

Thomas OATES on May 17th 1789


Parents of both boys were FRANCIS and MARY

It would be interesting to know if George left a will. He may have named Thomas as a Executor. They must have been close, or why would they be buried together ?

JeannieR

Hello JeannieR

That is wonderful; seriously good as I had come across the James and Sarah but they didnt match with what I had found however Francis and Mary do match.  Also matches with another Oates Edward Hawksley Oates;  I felt that Edward H was connected but haven't as yet (well until now) found how they are connected.


I did get a copy of Thomas will and it gave me all the names you are now identifying so a great job.  George did leave a will but as yet I haven't received it. Also the connection with non conformist works as they all seemed to be non conformist. 

I have to say I am so excited by the links the forum members have found.  Thank you so much... 

Mxmar0

[mxmar0]

Hi 1871 census Matlock Thomas / Charlotte boarders Rockside Establishment
and Boarding House.  Thomas Retired Commercial Agent.
 mirf

Thank you Mirf - seriously good.

Kind regards
Mxmar0

[mxmar0]

Hi

I also found the George Oates with parents Francis and Mary.  Nether Chapel, Norfolk Street, Sheffield is a non conformist Church.
They also had a daughter called Harriott she was christened
30th December 1798.  There seems to be some gaps in the ages
but that could be because the Non Conformist registers have not all
been transcribed yet in Sheffield.
I think that this is the George you require because the area he
was christened in is near to Glossop Road where you said he died.
I did see that there was a Thomas born 1792 and living on the 1841
census in Sheffield but it doesnt state on my info that he was actually
born in Sheffield.  So wondering if the one that  Jeannie found is
the correct one and that would make him around the same age as
George?
Another thing I found was the information about the class of England
in those days and it mentions that if you search for the Nether Chapel
as it states that the non conformists were very independant people which
included very good trades and people who became Lord Mayors etc.
So they were probably classed as higher than the Tykes of the day.
Not trying to be rude there but thats what they called themselves.
So do I lol. I think you will find a merchant had a bit more brass than a
file cutter or file smith.
 
Francis and Mary Bacon were married at St Peters Cathedral
on 24th April 1788. 

regards Sandymc

Hello Sandymc47

I will go searching for Nether Chapel and thank you for this lead.  Also for Francis & Mary marriage.  What does a Tyke do or is???  This is a new term for me;  in relation to the non conformist this has been a real benefit as it has helped me to find some of the ancestors.  It is also good to know there are more records to be transcribed.

Just on the class thing; it does seem to me that this was a bit of a decider as to which group to select marriageable partners?  Is there a book or similar that I could read that would help me to understand the class system that was operating at this period in time???  I am not in England and have looked on the web for some articles but too date a haven't located something that would enable me to get a real picture of how the class system operated  so any suggestions will be appreciated.

Kind regards

I am amazed how everyone works so well together and seem to generate new information off each other which is really wonderful.

Mxmar0

[Sandymc47]

Hi again,

Just to explain what I said about being a Tyke.  Its not a job its someone who was born in Yorkshire and whose dialect was very strong with people speaking a slightly different language to the Kings English.  Its something we are proud of in Yorkshire and I for one, didnt realise until I went to London in my 20's that I was speaking different words and some people didnt understand what I was saying lol.  The people who had a better job would more than likely speak in a better type of English than the generally uneducated workers who did the menial jobs.  Thats why I said jokingly I wasnt trying to be rude.
Its a Yorkshire thing.
I just put in my search engine Working class in England during the 1700's and 1800's and it has brought up alot of information.  I dont know much about books but I do know the Brontes wrote with some Yorkshire dialect in their writing. Also Charles Dickens wrote about the working class and poverty alot.
If you have any villages or towns in England and you search for them, put Genuki after the name and that brings up alot of the old information and churches of that area.  It also sometimes has Bulmers Gazette information on it which gives you lists of names of people who had businesses in the area. 
Happy to see we might have found the information you were looking for as it gets harder the further back in time you go.
Good luck with the rest.

regards Sandymc   

[mxmar0]

Hello Sandymc47

Just to be clear I wasn't suggesting you were being rude  ;  I was just curious.  In Australian slang a little tyke is "a mischievous child (eg: 'He's a little tyke!'); but I couldnt work out what it meant in the context it was used so thanks heaps for that clarification .

I will try some of the search points you mention.  I have my fingers crossed that others may come across more information for this family as they have been so difficult to locate although I have been so impressed to date with the assistance I have received.

Kind regards
Mxmar0

[anitamo]

Hello Mxmar0, if you need anything looking up in the Sheffield Archives or Library I am happy to do that for you, I go into the Town centre fairly regularly and I would be willing to call in. The records of Nether Chapel are at the Archives I think. If you google Nether Chapel Sheffield there is quite a bit of info there.
                                           

Regards  Anita

[Dalum]

Sheffield and Rotherham Independent
Saturday 20 Nov 1852

Deaths

OATES -- On the 16th inst., at his brother's house, Glossop
road, Mr. George Oates, aged 63, formerly of this town but
for upwards of thirty-five years a resident in the United
States.

Hugh

[Dalum]

and from the same issue...

THE LATE MR. GEO. OATES.-- We have this day
the melancholy duty of recording the death of our esteemed
townsman Mr. George Oates. Some of our readers will recol-
lect with pleasure the interest he took in early life, in the af-
fairs and Christian exertions of the congregation in Queen
street Chapel, in this town. For many years he took an active
part in the choir at that place of worship, and we have heard
many of our elderly friends speak with great admiration of
his vocal powers, while assisting in that delightful part
of public worship. For several years he was superintendent of
the Queen street school, and in 1814, in conjunction with his
brother, he commenced the Wicker sabbath school, which has
been for so many years a blessing to that neighbourhood. For
upwards of 35 years he has engaged in business pursuits in
the United States, and during that period he crossed the
Atlantic eighteen times. In the course of the last seven years
of his life Mr. Oates has published several very valuable
works on "Exchange and Interest," suitable for the United
States, and this year he has also published in this country,
similar works for sterling money, which have received the ap-
probation of some of the most distinguished bankers and ac-
countants. Mr. Oates was universally esteemed and beloved
by all who knew him, and his loss will be deeply deplored by a
large circle of relatives and friends.

*

If you would like to send pm me an email address I can send you images of the originals of those two extracts from the newspaper.

Hugh

[Dalum]

There is a longer obituary of Thomas from 1871.

Among other things it says that his father was a respectable manufacturer, George Oates
who lived many years in the Wicker, in the house which is now the Station Inn.

Thomas also spent time in the United States.
He had also been a Town councillor and an Alderman.

I am wondering if the paper was in error in calling his father George. I could not find a George in the Wicker in the directories at http://www.sheffieldindexers.com, but there are these entries:

Oates, Francis (fine scissor manufacturer).
Residing at 22 Wicker, Sheffield in 1825.
Recorded in: Gells 1825 Directory of Sheffield.
     
Oates, Francis & Sons (merchants).
Residing at 22 Wicker, Sheffield in 1825.
Recorded in: Gells 1825 Directory of Sheffield.

Hugh

[Dalum]

Sheffield Independent
Saturday 8 May 1830

DEATHS
...
On Sunday, Mr. F. Oates, scissor manufacturer, late of the
Wicker, aged 64.

***

Sheffield Independent
Saturday 4 Feb 1837

DEATHS
...
On Monday, Mrs Oates, relict of the late Mr. Francis
Oates of the Wicker, scissor manufacturer. Mrs. Oates
was the last surviving female member of the church, at
Queen street, who was a member when the Rev James
Boden became its pastor.

***

Burials at Sheffield Parish Church (SS Peter & Paul – now the Anglican Cathedral)
OATES Francis 5 May 1830 64 Sheffield, Park, South St  scissorsmith
OATES Mary 2 Feb 1837 69 Sheffield, Glossop Rd widow

Although this family were clearly staunch non-conformists they would not have had much choice in choosing a burial place at this period.

Hugh