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Topic: ERNEST THOMA BROWN (Read 878 times)
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aakarlhamo
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 53
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Alexander
You were right the certificate was wrong.
I had the bright idea to check army records and luckily there was one for Arthur Brown with wife Edith Caroline. I was delighted to see that amongst the children was an Ernest Thomas Brown born 11 Feb 1911.
I will get in touch with the relevant offices and let them know and also to see if I can get a refund for all the subsequent certificates I have ordered because of the wrong information. They can't deny it because the proof is in the army record.
I am really happy because Ernest had 7 siblings so I am hoping that there is still some family around that might remember Ernest and his family.
A result I think and PHEW at last!!!!!
Thanks again for all your help.
Carole 
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HARMES - SUSSEX/HAMMERSMITH, SERJEANT - CAMBS/ LONON, ASSELL - KINGS LYNN/ LONDON, HENLEY - LONDON, SMART - CAMBS /LONDON,
COWLAND - ESSEX, PIERPOINT - LONDON, BROWN - EDMONTON, DARE - SUFFOLK, BRAY - LIVERPOOL/CUMBRIA. MCMULLEN/KELLY/MILBURN/COLLINS/SUMPTON CUMBRIA
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aakarlhamo
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 53
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Alexander
Well I managed to get the marriage certificate looked into and the father's name of Ernest is correct. What is more it looks like he was still alive at the time of the marriage as there are other fathers on the page with deceased in brackets so the registrar did ask the question.
I am absolutely dumb founded given all the correlations with Arthur as the father.
I have opened up the Brown family on ancestry using Arthur and Edith Caroline Fitch as the parents:
: On Arthur's 1918 army papers he is living at 56 Winchester Road. Ernest Thomas lived at 157 Winchester Road at the time of his marriage in 1932 but he wasn't on the electoral roll!
There are no other siblings, uncles etc with the name Ernest within Arthur's family.
A brother of Arthur's Ernest Thomas was called Victor and my Ernest Thomas did name his first son Victor! Also,it looks like my Ernest Thomas gave his first daughter's middle name as Ellen after his wife and my mum got Edith - maybe after his mother?
Arthur's father was called Thomas Brown!
Then there is the Ruby death and my Ernest Thomas left his family to be with a woman in Rugby. Apparently he had several children with her.
The evidence seems to stack up so it is all rather strange and I am very stumped as to my next step 
I really don't want to just assume that Arthur is the father. 
Regards
confused.com Carole
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HARMES - SUSSEX/HAMMERSMITH, SERJEANT - CAMBS/ LONON, ASSELL - KINGS LYNN/ LONDON, HENLEY - LONDON, SMART - CAMBS /LONDON,
COWLAND - ESSEX, PIERPOINT - LONDON, BROWN - EDMONTON, DARE - SUFFOLK, BRAY - LIVERPOOL/CUMBRIA. MCMULLEN/KELLY/MILBURN/COLLINS/SUMPTON CUMBRIA
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hoolianama0508
RootsChat Member
Posts: 128
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I am not familiar with Edmonton, so I am not sure if my suggestion could possibly be helpful.
In my recent research of Brown family of Islington, circa 1861-1881, I came across the names Ernest and Arthur Brown.
Here is what I discovered.
1861 census: No 1 Drury Lane
Edward Brown born about 1893 in Harlington Middlesex, carman
Mary Anne Brown, born about 1833, Suffolk
Mary Anne Brown, born 1856, St George Bloomsbury
James Martin, born 1836, lodger carman
Thomas Martin, born 1842, lodger carman
John Martin, born 1843, baker
Then the 1871 census shows the family at No 164 Drury Lane
Edward
Mary Anne (wife)
Mary Anne (daughter)
Samuel, born 1865
ERNEST, born 1868
Albert, born 1871
John Martin, brother in law, born 1843 carman born Suffolk
William Eden, lodger, born 1852
Then another Brown family
1881 census: 28 Maude Terrace, Islington
William Brown, Labourer born 1893 St Pancras
Emma B, wife, born 1842
Eliza born 1863
Ellen born 1865
Sarah born 1867
John Born 1870
Henry born 1873
Emma born 1876
ARTHUR born 1878
Rose born 1881
Perhaps one of these gentlemen could be the father to your Ernest? If not, then I do wish you every success with your search.
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Cook, Earwaker, Gascoine, Greaves, Griffith, Stephenson
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aakarlhamo
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 53
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
Thanks for your suggestions for Ernest and his father.
I have since found and been in contact with my birth mother who has confirmed that the father on Ernest Thomas marriage certificate is wrong and it is the Arthur who I thought it was - ha ha after all that!!!
So Ernest's father is Arthur born 1877/78 Holloway.
Anyway, I sent for Arthur and Edith's marriage certificate and I now have Arthur's father as William a stoker at the gas works in 1898.
From what I have managed to deduce so far I too have come up with the family at Maude Terrace, Islington, as being Arthur's family. I just need to double check it all as I think there is an upper and lower Holloway.
Are you looking for your Brown family in the same area?
Let me have the names and I will keep an eye open and let you know if I come across them.
Thanks again
Carole
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HARMES - SUSSEX/HAMMERSMITH, SERJEANT - CAMBS/ LONON, ASSELL - KINGS LYNN/ LONDON, HENLEY - LONDON, SMART - CAMBS /LONDON,
COWLAND - ESSEX, PIERPOINT - LONDON, BROWN - EDMONTON, DARE - SUFFOLK, BRAY - LIVERPOOL/CUMBRIA. MCMULLEN/KELLY/MILBURN/COLLINS/SUMPTON CUMBRIA
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hoolianama0508
RootsChat Member
Posts: 128
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Great news about your find! I was worried that it the information would be of no use to you.
I stumbled across the 28 Maude Terrace Brown family when I was transcribing my James Cook family living at the same residence.
My COOK family hail from Islington, they were quite a large family of drovers and most worked near the Smithfield Cattle Market.
George William Brown (born 1876) and Ellen Brown (born 1879) were brother and sister, and they each married a Cook. Their father was George William Brown, born about 1850, and their mother was Ellen Brown, born about 1852.)
Here are George and Ellen's connection with the Cooks.
1898, Islington: George William Brown married Elizabeth Emma Cook (not sure if she is connected to my Cook line at this time, but I have a feeling she may be.)
1900, Holborn: Ellen Brown married George Cook (he is my 1st cousin 3 times removed. His father was James Cook, brother to my great-great grandfather, Edward Cook)
Happy to have helped with Ernest and Arthur.
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Cook, Earwaker, Gascoine, Greaves, Griffith, Stephenson
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aakarlhamo
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 53
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Ha ha you have made my head spin 
I am just working on Arthur and filling in the census details for 28 Maude Terrace. I can see your Cook family at the same address but not sure where the George William Brown comes from as he is not in my Brown family at that address and the Ellen Brown is born 1865 rather than 1879. The father is William Brown and the mother Emma!
It would be great if we have a family connection 
Are you on Ancestry?
Carole
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HARMES - SUSSEX/HAMMERSMITH, SERJEANT - CAMBS/ LONON, ASSELL - KINGS LYNN/ LONDON, HENLEY - LONDON, SMART - CAMBS /LONDON,
COWLAND - ESSEX, PIERPOINT - LONDON, BROWN - EDMONTON, DARE - SUFFOLK, BRAY - LIVERPOOL/CUMBRIA. MCMULLEN/KELLY/MILBURN/COLLINS/SUMPTON CUMBRIA
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aakarlhamo
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 53
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Ha ha I am easily confused
I am not sure what records you are missing but I couldn't resist a quick search.
Have you seen the 1881 census for 57 Market St, Poplar?
George Brown Cooper Stepney 1851
Ellen Brown Hackney 1852
George Brown Poplar 1876
Ellen Brown Poplar 1878
John Brown Poplar 1880
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HARMES - SUSSEX/HAMMERSMITH, SERJEANT - CAMBS/ LONON, ASSELL - KINGS LYNN/ LONDON, HENLEY - LONDON, SMART - CAMBS /LONDON,
COWLAND - ESSEX, PIERPOINT - LONDON, BROWN - EDMONTON, DARE - SUFFOLK, BRAY - LIVERPOOL/CUMBRIA. MCMULLEN/KELLY/MILBURN/COLLINS/SUMPTON CUMBRIA
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