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Topic: Help needed to get to the bottom of a family scandal? (Read 2602 times)
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Judy Pengilly
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My Grandad, Frederick Cardell Pengilly, arrived from the UK on Ellis Island in 1911 off of the "Philadelphia" and worked for several years in Bingham Utah with other members of the family (Carkeek).
In 1917 he joined the Canadian Railway Troops and served in France until 1919. Here's the SCANDAL he met a girl (who became my Grandmother), Phillippa Mary Blanche Cole, probably whilst on leave from WW1 at the family home in Cornwall. He, post leave obviously returned to canada for demob and then on to Miami, Arizona. Grandmother then turns up, 6 month pregnant on Ellis Island in November 1919 off of the "Adriatic"
I believe he probably met her and married in New York, but did he? Or did he marry her in Arizona? Cannot find any evidence of marriage any help appreciated
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KarenM
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My Grandpa Stanley has the hanky in his pocket
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I see now she was not married when she arrived. Wow, if he met her in NY, they could of got married anywhere between NY and Arizona. I guess you would just have to figure out the route they would have taken in 1919 to get to Arizona and check what States they would have went through. Sorry, not much help. At least you know it's not all the states, only maybe 8, since you ruled out New York and Arizona.
Karen
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Gandley (but known as Stanley in Canada)- Ireland to Birmingham
Ball, Kempson & Franklin - Birmingham
Shorter - Surrey
Dyer - Devon
Dawkins - Co. Cork, Ireland
Heffernan - Ireland
Huck - Alsace, France
Reinhart - Baden, Germany
Bowman & Ellis - England
Etheridge - Glouchester
Who all came to Canada in a little row boat, clap clap, clap your hands!!
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liverpool annie
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Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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OK Karen
I'm starting from the begining!
1871
Elizabeth Pengilly 1842 Gwennap, Cornwall Wife St Columb Minor Cornwall
John Pengilly 1847 Kea, Cornwall Head St Columb Minor Cornwall
1881
Elizabeth Pengilley 1844 Gwennap, Cornwall Wife Helston Water, Kea, Cornwall
Frederick Pengilley 1873 Kea, Cornwall Son Helston Water, Kea, Cornwall
John Pengilley 1839 Kea, Cornwall Head Helston Water, Kea, Cornwall
Mary Ann Pengilley 1878 Daughter Helston Water, Kea, Cornwall
Richard Pengilley 1875 Kea, Cornwall Son Helston Water, Kea, Cornwall
William Pengilley 1871 Kea, Cornwall Son Helston Water, Kea, Cornwall
1891
Elizabeth Pengelly Wid Head age 37 b. Gwennap
Frederick " Son age 19
Richard " Son age 17
Mary Ann " Daughter age 13
Carolyn " Daughter age 9
John " Son age 6
This is where it gets weird 
1901
Julia Mennea 1879 Camborne, Cornwall Servant Falmouth Cornwall
Edith E Pengilly 1882 Mexico Daughter Falmouth Cornwall
Elizabeth Pengilly 1850 Gwennap, Cornwall Head Falmouth Cornwall
Ethel Pengilly 1888 Mexico Daughter Falmouth Cornwall
Isabel Pengilly 1890 Mexico Daughter Falmouth Cornwall
I believe they are all Elizabeth - but birthdates vary - and children in 1901 were all born in Mexico ..... do you know about them???
I have the images - if you would like to PM me with your email address (for privacy) I could send them and you can decide for yourself ....
Of course I haven't answered your original question but I want to make sure we have the right family - I believe the Frederick you mentioned at the beginning
is a different person.....
I also have a copy of his WW1 registration card - so let me know what you want to do and we'll go from there!!
Regards
Annie
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King
Be who you are and say what you feel - because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss
Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5
"Our fathers did not talk about psychology - they talked about a knowledge of Human Nature. But they had it, and we have not. They knew by instinct all that we have ignored by the help of information." Chesterton
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Judy Pengilly
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Wow thank you Annie and Karen for showing an interest thats marvelous because I realy have hit the wall!!!
I have been a little cheeky posting on this thread because I initially asked my first question on the beginners thread. (Pengilly) If you go and read that one it will explain a little more and the mystery will deepen, I promise, even the TITANIC comes into this one.......
When I say I am trying to find my Grandad its true, thats the purpose of this thread. I can trace him until the 1930 Census then he disappears off the face of the earth. But I know he met (obviously - 6 months pregnant) my Gran straight after WW1, I would think while he was on leave whilst awaiting demob and passage back to Canada. He went to Arizona and obviously kept in touch with Blanche who informed him of his future fatherhood!!! She turns up, (her father pays for passage) in USA at Ellis, BUT at some point he married her, I thought possibly in NY on arrival or along the way but where?
I promise this has all the ingredients of an Edwardian novel....... please any help is very very much appreciated.
Judy
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Judy Pengilly
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I'm fairly convinced of everything up until 1891, that Frederick is Frederick Cardell Pengilly died 1st Feb1902 aged 41 so that fits, his wife Elizabeth Jane died in 1952 aged 85. The confusion comes in in this family where all the men and women come to that seem to have the same names aghhhhhhhh!!!!!! and its obviously catching because my husband Steven Cardell Pengilly and guess what my son Steven Cardell Pengilly Guess the family just lacks imagination.
The mexican link so far means nothing to me but believe me "Gwennap" is 3 shops and a very famous religious PIT!, (made famous by John Wesley as a preaching place). so there has to be some relationship.
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Judy Pengilly
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Aaaaaggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Something just made me think about the TITANIC link. This is from the Titanic website:Pengelly (Pengilly) Family Information
Frederick (Fred) William Pengelly was born in the parish of Calstock, East Cornwall in early 1893 whilst his father was working in the area as a mining engineer.
Fred’s father, Frederick William Cardell Pengilly (sic) was born in 1861 in the village of Chacewater close to the intensive mining district of Gwennap near Redruth, Cornwall. He was the son of Charles Pengilly an arsenic manufacturer, arsenic being mined on a large scale in Cornwall at that time.
The 1891 census shows Fred’s father living and working at Gwennap. Described in the census as an assayer, his job would have involved the checking of the quality of metal, e.g. tin, copper or arsenic contained in the mined ore. Towards the end of that year he married at Gwennap to Elizabeth Jane (maiden surname not known).
Shortly following their marriage the couple moved to East Cornwall and settled at Calstock. It was here that their son, Frederick William Pengelly was born in early 1893.
Within a fairly short time the family left Calstock and returned westward to St Day, a village close by the mining district of Gwennap. It was here in the summer of 1899 that their second child, a daughter, Elizabeth Myra Pengelly was born.
The March 1901 census for their home at Buckingham Place has Frederick Pengilly (40), Elizabeth (32), Fred ( and Elizabeth (1). Within 12 months Frederick Pengilly had died, he was buried in the St Day churchyard in February 1902.
It was commonplace for children as young as 9 or 10 to be employed at the mines so it can be assumed that Fred started work at about the time of his father’s death.
What happened immediately following his father’s death has not been established but it is known that by 1911/12 he had returned to the Calstock district of East Cornwall and was living in the small hamlet of Chilsworthy. It was whilst working in the mines there that he made the acquaintance of William Jeffery Ware of nearby Gunnislake who was to be his travelling companion on Titanic.
On 18 April 1912 the Western Morning News newspaper reported that Fred’s mother was living in Gunnislake and that she had remarried to a Mr G Reynolds who was away working in America. (This second marriage has yet to be substantiated). It is probable he was a miner and that Fred’s intention in travelling to America was to have met up with him there.
In early April 1912 Fred Pengelly and William Ware booked their Atlantic crossing with local White Star agent, Jeremiah Yeolton of Newbridge Hill, Gunnislake. They were due to travel on another steamer but as a result of the coal strikes had their passage transferred to Titanic. Their ultimate destination was to have been the copper mines of Butte, Montana.
They boarded at Southampton and travelled second class, their tickets each costing £10 10s. Neither survived the sinking and their bodies were not amongst those later recovered from the sea. Fred was barely 19 years old.
There is no mention of Fred in the Mansion House Relief Fund records which indicates that his mother neither claimed, nor automatically received any monetary assistance from the fund.
At some date following 1912 Fred’s mother left Greenhill, Gunnislake and settled at Redruth where she died aged 83 in 1953. She was buried with her husband at St Day churchyard where a gravestone marks their grave. There is apparently no memorial on it to their son Fred.
The following is taken from the Probate Index (note spelling of surnames)
PENGILLY Frederick William Cardell of Buckingham-place St Day Gwennap Cornwall mining-engineer died 1 February 1902 Probate Bodmin 1 March to Elizabeth Jane Pengilly widow. Effects £670
PENGILLY Elizabeth Jane of Somerleigh Gew-terrace East End Redruth Cornwall widow died 17 April 1953 Probate Bodmin 21 May to Elizabeth Myra Williams (married woman). Effects £510 9s 10d
Now it says he travelled with a freind William Ware have a look again at the 1930 Arizona Census about 15 names above my Grandad?
AAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Sorry everyone but I'm sure you can see how frustrating this really is.
Judy
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ec
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As a suggestion, you might want to look further at this chap on the Titanic Site
Mr Henry Forbes Julian
http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/biography.php/julian_henry_forbes_173.html
who also died on the Titanic
He was married to Hester Pengelly, youngest daughter of William and Lydia Pengelly of Torquay. Geologists.
You could also try contacting Steve Coombes the contributor to the Titanic site - he seems to have done profiles of many of the passengers.
EC
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ec
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You might also want to look at this article whish mentions more Pengellys involved.
http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/item.php/2212.html
I must admit I am struggling a bit with this - I am not sure why you believe Frederick Cardell Pengelly and Frederick William Pengelly could be/are the same person - could it just be the the Titanic researcher has got the two muddled?
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Judy Pengilly
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EC that must be the reason! must'nt it!!!!
but why did that Frederick Pengilly and my Frederick Pengilly travel with the same friend William Ware and purchase tickets, believe me Calstock is not a very big place. I do believe a researcher has made a mistake with the names but why William Ware as well. I am really very new to this and this is only the first week where I have decided to try do make sense of it all. If my Frederick Pengilly (and William Ware) for that matter had perished on the TITANIC my family would not exist!!! but I believe the chances of 2 family's sharing so many names to be more than a coincidence. Did he (My Frederick Pengilly) knowingly or unknowingly allow his name to be used, I truly dont know.
My interest is really trying to find where and when he married my Grandmother (I have a letter from him to his sister (Myra!!!!!) where he talks to her about getting divorced) and where on earth he disappeared to after 1930, there must be some other record of him after this date but I cannot find it anywhere.
Sorry for sharing and passing on my frustrations but surely people cannot disappear.........Unless they want to?
Kathy
The 1920 Blanche and Frederick are definitely them, they had 3 children, another Frederick B1920, Ester b1924, Gwendoline b1927 all registered in Miami Arizona.
Judy
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