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Topic: JELLYHILL FARM - Cadder (Read 1292 times)
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ron_dem
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 30
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi Lindsay:
I would be interested on anything you have on a family headed by Milson Davi(e)s and his wife Elizabeth. One of their daughters was born in the Jellyhill miner's row. in 1906. her name was Mary Margaret Fisher Davi(e)s.
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Dempsey, Hampton, Bon(n)ar, Wilson,
Stewart (2) Wilson (2) Barclay, Watson, Meldrum, Brand (2), Kinloch, Nicol, Brown, McNeillis, Gallocher, O'Donnell (2), Harper, Main, Thomson, Donnelly,
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LindsaySiam
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 533
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Hello ron_dem,
They are not at Jellyhill between 1881 and 1901 so they must have moved there between 1901 and 1906 when Mary Margaret was born.
In 1901, they lived at Brown's Land, Bishopbriggs, Cadder - Jellyhill was also Bishopbriggs.
Milson Davies (with the E), aged 40, married, an Ironstone Miner born in Gloucestershire, England living with
Elizabeth Davies, wife, aged 28 (I think?) born in Springburn, Lanarkshire
Eliza Smith Davies, daughter, aged 6, scholar born in Auchinairn, Lanarkshire
William Davies, son aged 5, born in Bishopbriggs, Lanarkshire
John Davies, son, aged 3, born in Bishopbriggs, Lanarkshire
Incidentally, do you have this info?
A Milson of the right age'ish appears on the 1861 Census in West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
William Davies, aged 37, head, a Coalminer born in Newland, Gloucs
Sarah Ann Davies, wife, aged 30 born in Newland, Gloucs
William Henry Davies, son aged 7, born in East Dean, Gloucs
Milson Davies, son aged 4, born in East Dean, Gloucs
Rosa Ann Davies, daughter, aged 2 born in East Dean, Gloucs
The 1871 and 1891 census in England have also 1 Milson Davies each, not yours but from the same area so maybe a family name?
In 1881, Milson is a 21 year old coalminer living at 33, Brick Row, Wemyss, Fife, Lodger to James Russell (36), his wife Mary Russell (37) and their daughter Sarah (2). The Russells were all born in England.
regards,
Lindsay
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MORRISON - Dunbartonshire, Stirlingshire
STIRLING - Stirlingshire
LINDSAY - Perthshire
MELDRUM - Fife, Angus
GIBSON - Lanarkshire
HEWITT - Wigtownshire, Lanarkshire
MEIKLE - Dunbartonshire
All census information Crown Copyright
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ron_dem
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 30
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Wow! Lindsay I am impressed.
I had most of the Scottish census reports that you so kindly sent. I was hoping that a little more information was forthcoming with the Jelly hill address.
Milson has proved elusive in the Gloucestershire area . I just this very week received the information of him on the 1861 census. I am wondering what happened to his parents and any documentation on his parents prior to Milson's birth.
The Davies is the maternal links for a friend of mine for whom I am doing research.
I know Jelly hill area since my own grandparents moved thier in 1921 and I was raised in Auchinairn.
Thanks so kindly for all the information .
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Dempsey, Hampton, Bon(n)ar, Wilson,
Stewart (2) Wilson (2) Barclay, Watson, Meldrum, Brand (2), Kinloch, Nicol, Brown, McNeillis, Gallocher, O'Donnell (2), Harper, Main, Thomson, Donnelly,
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aeroqueen
RootsChat Member
Posts: 206
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Hello Lindsay
would you be kind enough to have a look for Zuill/Yuill & Martin surnames for me
thankyou
kind regards aeroqueen
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LindsaySiam
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 533
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Milson has proved elusive in the Gloucestershire area . I just this very week received the information of him on the 1861 census. I am wondering what happened to his parents and any documentation on his parents prior to Milson's birth.
I am wondering if this might be Milson's father in 1851?
Mary Davies, Head, married, aged 55 born in Lydney, Gloucs,living with
her sister, Elizabeth Cheese, aged 53 and unmarried, also born in Lydney,
21 year old William H. Davies, unmarried, born in Newland
17 year old Kitty Higgins, unmarried, a house servant born in Newport, Wales (Mons)
There are no occupations given other than Kitty's. I imagine Mary's maiden name was Cheese also as her sister is unmarried. Does this ring any bells?
Interesting about your grandparents, what is their surname? They arrived in Jellyhill just about the time that mine seem to have disappeared ... my 2G grandfather, Andrew Gibson became the Farm Manager at Jellyhill Farm after the death of John Craig, the owner, although he and his family had lived and worked there since about 1880. My 2G grandfather died in 1903 but some of their children were still there after this, at least until 1923 when one of his sons married there. Apart from my G Grandmother who was born at Jellyhill, I don't know where the others went to.
As you lived in the area, you will probably know that there is not much left now, I saw it in April last year, there were just 3 or 4 buildings - the Farmhouse and some barns/outbuildings. Jellyhill Cottages and the miner's rows were all pulled down but I don't know when. It was still in use as Nursery or Depot for one of the Corporations. The people working there told me that one time it supplied all the plants etc. for the public parts of Glasgow.
regards,
Lindsay
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MORRISON - Dunbartonshire, Stirlingshire
STIRLING - Stirlingshire
LINDSAY - Perthshire
MELDRUM - Fife, Angus
GIBSON - Lanarkshire
HEWITT - Wigtownshire, Lanarkshire
MEIKLE - Dunbartonshire
All census information Crown Copyright
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ron_dem
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 30
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Lindsay:
My Kinlochs and my Meldrums are from Kincardineshire, all my Scottish side is from the Northeast. My father's side were famine Irish and mostly coal miners.
My grand parents Edward (Ned) Dempsey and Sarah Logan (Bonar) Dempsey settled at 47 Hilton Terrace ( I think ) in 1921. He was a mining contractor, he hired others as well as his sons, one was my father Neil who arrived there at age 14.
The Margaret Davies whom I originally asked about b. 1906 married John Forrest Armstrong, one of the Armstrongs I was asking about on the Dunbartonshire post.
I was so very pleased that you sent me the 1861 census with a Milson 4 years of age. However, I have just received another census from another kind poster on another board who has this paricular Milson at 8 mo in West Dean. which seems to fit with later census reports. Also we know that Milson parents were William Davis and Elizabeth Smith. Look at Milson eldest daughter on the 1901 census.
I attended Auchinairn primary 1953 to 1958 and I had a Tom Gibson in my class and he had an older brother named Andrew, would they be related?
If they are I have their class pictures in 1959 if you are interested.
Lastly, I have two maps of the area more predominatly in Mavis Valley, in 1898 and 1933. I will gladly send them to by e mail as they are too large for this venue.
thanks again
Ron Dempsey
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Dempsey, Hampton, Bon(n)ar, Wilson,
Stewart (2) Wilson (2) Barclay, Watson, Meldrum, Brand (2), Kinloch, Nicol, Brown, McNeillis, Gallocher, O'Donnell (2), Harper, Main, Thomson, Donnelly,
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LindsaySiam
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 533
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Hello Ron, yes, please I would love to see the maps.
Andrew is certainly a family name in my Gibsons, the trouble is I don't know where the rest of my Gibsons would be, they are lost in that funny time period where you can't get anything from the census or SP death certs .... still Auchinairn might be a place to look.
Yes, 8 months is definitely closer to the right age in 1861 than 4. I don't know why I didn't see that one but if you want me to look for any more, please let me know. Actually, I had assumed that Eliza Smith Davies was named for Elizabeth's mother, not Milson's - in keeping with SNP, wrong again.
regards,
Lindsay
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MORRISON - Dunbartonshire, Stirlingshire
STIRLING - Stirlingshire
LINDSAY - Perthshire
MELDRUM - Fife, Angus
GIBSON - Lanarkshire
HEWITT - Wigtownshire, Lanarkshire
MEIKLE - Dunbartonshire
All census information Crown Copyright
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Okonski
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I'm trying to discover when Bishopbriggs's name became corrupted - my maps of the area confirmed it was really called 'Bishop Bridges', and was part of the Cadder lands (and adjacent to Jellyhill). The best I can reach is circa 1880, does your Jellyhill research thow any light on the name used?
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ron_dem
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 30
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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I would suspect that there is no evidence to show that it really was Bishop's Bridges. "Bishop Bridges" was probably an affectation taken from the local Scots dialect and put into Victorian English, of what they perceived it should be.
However, there is two possibilities for the original Bishopbriggs. The lands of Cadder did indeed belong to the Bishop of Glasgow since the mediaeval ages.
1. possiblity as established the Bishop bridge or brigg over the Kelvin water, or was it the Callieburn?.
2. possibility is Bishop Riggs. Riggs as in runrigs the lengths of arable lands for farming, that was in use prior to enclosed farming after the 18th century.
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Dempsey, Hampton, Bon(n)ar, Wilson,
Stewart (2) Wilson (2) Barclay, Watson, Meldrum, Brand (2), Kinloch, Nicol, Brown, McNeillis, Gallocher, O'Donnell (2), Harper, Main, Thomson, Donnelly,
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LindsaySiam
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 533
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The 1894 Will of John Craig, the Farmer who owned Jellyhill Farm, says
Jellyhill Farm, near Bishopbriggs, Parish of Cadder
so it was before that ..
The 1881 census for Jellyhill doesn't mention Bishopbriggs at all, just says Jellyhill, Cadder and the birth certificate of my 2G Grandmother, who was born at Jellyhill, says 'Jellyhill in the Western District of Cadder'.
However when I rechecked the cert just now, I noticed another birth entry for a Walter Knox whose parents were married 18th June 1880 at 'Bishopbridge, Cadder'.
regards,
Lindsay
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MORRISON - Dunbartonshire, Stirlingshire
STIRLING - Stirlingshire
LINDSAY - Perthshire
MELDRUM - Fife, Angus
GIBSON - Lanarkshire
HEWITT - Wigtownshire, Lanarkshire
MEIKLE - Dunbartonshire
All census information Crown Copyright
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ron_dem
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 30
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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I lean towards "riggs" as opposed to the briggs or bridges..
Just trying say Bishop Riggs and it can't help sound as though there a "b" in there.
From wikipedia, which can't be totally trusted.
The derivation of the name Bishopbriggs has caused some controversy over the years. Some prefer the explanation that it was named after ‘the Bishop’s Bridge’, supposedly that over the Callie Burn that runs through Bishopbriggs Park, whereas others believe the middle ‘b’ is a corruption. This, so the argument goes, appeared because it rolls off the tongue more easily than the original name of ‘Bishop’s Riggs’. In this alternative ‘riggs’ refers to the fields which the Archbishop of Glasgow raised teinds (tithes) from.
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Dempsey, Hampton, Bon(n)ar, Wilson,
Stewart (2) Wilson (2) Barclay, Watson, Meldrum, Brand (2), Kinloch, Nicol, Brown, McNeillis, Gallocher, O'Donnell (2), Harper, Main, Thomson, Donnelly,
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Okonski
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Strange - I had posted a reply debunking the 'Riggs/Tithe' myth and it's disappeared. There's no doubt, Bishopbriggs evolved from Bishops Bridge and appears in maps of the period from several sources - including, and thanks for that (!) the birth record. Cadder was the prime location, with everything hanging from that... Bishop Bridge being simply a locality within Cadder district, rather than the other way around! But I'm still no further in defining WHEN the corruption took place, the 1850's seems to be when it all went wrong, and long before the 'Villa Mansions' of railway fame were built in the area. (The owners of the villas got free railway travel).
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