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Topic: COOPER Robert Ramsholt 1881 Census (Read 749 times)
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johnpeel
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 93
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Are there any descendent's of Robert Cooper bn. c.1825 in Ramsholt and Hannah bn. 1825 in Butley who appear in the 1851 and 1881 census. Their dr. Elizabeth 20 yr. in 1881, was my g.gm.
Robert and Hannah were both aged 56 in the 1881 census and living in "Brewhouse" which I think should be "Bluehouse".
Appreciate any further details for family history.
Regards Johnpeel
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casalguidi
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11918
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Here they are again:
1871
Brewhouse, Ramsholt
Robert COOPER head mar 47 ag lab b.Ramsholt
Hannah wife 46 b.Butley
Robert son 19 ag lab
Edward son 16 ag lab
Elizabeth dau 12
Henry son 8
all children b.Ramsholt
Rg10/1759 folio 65 page 1
It definitely says Brewhouse
Best wishes
Casalguidi
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johnpeel
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 93
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Hi Casalguidi
Many thanks for the replyand info.
Regards Johnpeel
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annes
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 662
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Am new to rootschat, and this is my first reply, so hope its ok.
I have ROBERT COOPER b.1825 Ramsholt on my tree.
I don't know if this is any help to you but here goes.
Samuel Gowing m. Tamar Smith 17-3-1818 at Butley, Suffolk
Hannah Gowing d/o Samuel Gowing and Tamar Smith
Baptised 27-3-1824 at Butley, Suffolk
Robert Cooper (22) m. Hannah Gowing (21) 13-10-1845 at Butley, Suffolk
Sorry but don't know any further back about Robert Cooper.
Robert's and Hannah's son Robert b.1852 would be my GG GF, he married Charlotte Snowden somewhere in Suffolk in 1875 .
Best wishes
Annes
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johnpeel
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 93
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Hello Annes
Thanks for the reply to my search and it certainly looks good as the dates that you have given me seem to tie up with my records.
I don't know where you obtained your info but in the 1851 census I have Robert Cooper aged 26 making him bn. 1825 and married to a Hannah  of Butley also 26 with dr. Emma just bn. at Alderton. age not decipherable. but obviously very young.
In the 1871 census Robert and Hannah had Robert 19 yr. Edward 16yr. Elizabeth 12 yr. and Henry 8yr. Emma does not appear so she has probably mrd. by this time.
In the 1881 census Robert and Hannah ( Gowing???) are shown with Elizabeth DOWLING 20 yr. obviously home from London, with Henry 17yr. Dwelling, Brewhouse, Shottisham.
There is a Henry aged 37 appearing in 1901 census working as a groundkeeper in Southwold which might be a connection, but not confirmed.
I have the mrg. cert. of John Robert Dowling and Elizabeth Cooper (my g,grandmother) dated 1881, with her father's profession as farmer
Son Robert 29yr. appears in the 1881, . census married to a Charlotte 25 yr. bn. Sutton and had Edward William 5yr. Louise Elizabeth 4yr. and Hannah Rachel 9 mth. All bn. Sutton.
Dwelling, Stony Farm Cottage. Sutton.
Elzabeth was my g. grand mother married to John Robert Dowling in 2 Half Moon St. London. John working as a butler.
I am sure that Robert's fthr was a Thomas Cooper bn 1791 Ramsholt mrd. to a Mary Stetton ? to be confirmed.
Looks a very good match as yet.
Keep in touch John Constable (no connection)
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annes
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 662
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Thank you for your reply and extra info you've provided.
I agree that Robert Cooper was bn 1825 (therefore 26 in 1851), the age I supplied in marriage details was from the fiche of Butley parish register at Records Office but I know these are not always accurate.
I have viewed fiche of 1851 census also at RO and read daughter Emma (bn Alderton) as being 11M. They had a son Henry, born 3rd March 1862, baptised 11th October 1862 at Ramsholt.
The Robert Cooper aged 29 in 1881 census is my GG GF. He was married to Charlotte Snowden in 1875 somewhere in the Woodbridge district, but don't know where. Dates of baptisms of their children (that I'm aware of) all baptised at Sutton Suffolk:
Edward William 6.2.1876
Louisa Elizabeth 2.9.1877
Hannah Rachel 24.10.1879
Rachel Snowden 10.9.1882 (bn 12.8.1882)
Robert 25.1.1885 (bn 24.11.1884)
Alice Priscilla 15.7.1888 (bn 17.5.1888)
Emma Charlotte 24.5.1891 (bn 6.4.1891)
Marion Maude 14.4.1895 (bn 17.2.1895)
Louisa Elizabeth (1877-1942) m. William Harvey (1871-1949) at Sutton Suffolk on 7.8.1899. They were my great grandparents.
This info is to the best of my knowledge but accept that it might not agree. I hope some of the above might prove useful.
Best wishes
Annes
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katemart
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 71
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Sorry for confusion, my Hannah is a younger generation, being the daughter of the brother of the Hannah you mention born in 1825.
As well as Hannah, Samuel Gowing and Tamar Smith also had John Thurston Gowing (chr 7 May 1818 in Butley). He also married a Hannah of Butley (b c 1819). Their children were Mary Ann (1845), John (1852), Henery (1854), Joseph (1856), Hannah (1859) and Harriett (1859). It is this John who married Betsy Elizabeth Pettitt.
Kate
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RUMSBY (any, plus assorted Suffolk families); HOLLAND (Driffield > E London > Tilbury); JONES (Deptford > Gravesend); PAIN (Tibury); BULLEN (London); O'CONNELL and MAHONEY (Cork > Gravesend); ANTHONY, ROWE, LAWRY (Cornwall > London); STONES, VITTY, RIPLEY (Durham > Yorkshire).
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annes
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 662
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Hi both,
This may be information you already know, but Samuel Gowing and Tamar Smith also had Sarah Ann (bap 8th April 1821) and Emma (baptised 22nd September 1822) at Butley.
Regards
Anne
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johnpeel
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 93
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Hi Annes and to other contributors ,
Thanks for all the information it is very useful and for Annes perhaps you might be interested in the fact that the actress Joan Dowling who was a starlet who signed up for films and made quite a few before here untimely early death about 1955 was the g.grandaughter of Robert,s (bn. 1852), sister Elizabeth bn.1859 who mrd. our John Dowling Mar 21 1881 in Mayfair London whilst working in service.
My cousin who is also searching the same Dowling family downloaded a film clip of Joan Dowling living with her grandmother, Elizabeth Coopers dr. So we have a little clip on our pc,s
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annes
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 662
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Hi Johnpeel,
Thanks for the reply, and the interesting family connection you have to Joan Dowling.
I reply because because I owe you an apology - have looked at Ramsholt parish register today and realise I've made a mistake on the info i've given you re: Henry Cooper s/o Robert and Hannah. He was actually born on 1st June 1863 and baptised on 22nd November 1863 not as stated above. This would tie in better with the later info you have for him.
Also, as we both need this info to be as accurate as poss, I will check 1851 census next time i'm in RO as on my original notes I had Robert Cooper as age 28, and Hannah as 26, Emma 11M, this would then make him bn 1823 and he would be 22 when married in 1845, as stated on the marriage regsiter of Butley. As I say, I will check this out as soon as I can because I know it needs to be right. Do you read your 1851 census from fiche or is it online?
Hope I haven't confused you too much.
Best wishes
Anne
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annes
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 662
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Hi John, another bit of info for you ...
Have looked at Ramsholt 1851, both on fiche and the printed index. On fiche, Robert Cooper looks age 28 (a curly old fashioned  . Have also looked at the printed index, and it definitely says 28.
Also, I've been thinking about Robert and Hannah and how odd that it is 5 years after being married before they had children, v. rare in those days. Looked at Alderton parish register (where Emma was born) and found a baptism for a Joseph Cooper s/o Robert and Hannah, bap 26 Sep 1847.
Then looked at burials, and Joseph Cooper was buried 21 Oct 1849, age 2. Says in the register that all entries marked with a "X" died of scarlet fever (there were 19 deaths in Alderton from scarlet fever between Sept and Dec 1849!). Joseph Cooper's entry had a "X" beside it.
Next, a Mary Ann Cooper, buried 24 Oct 1849, age 5, also died of scarlet fever. Could not see her baptism in Alderton, but found it in Butley - Mary Ann Gowen, daughter of Hannah Gowen (spinster), baptised 15 December 1844 in Butley.
Also, Emma (bn 1850) died in 1859. She was buried at Ramsholt 20 Nov 1859, age 9.
Hope this is of some interest.
Best wishes
Anne
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johnpeel
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 93
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Hi Anne.
The info that you have provided has opened my family tree wide now . Trouble is that one does not know when to stop entering the info.
I obtained the 1851 census from Suffolk R.O. and must say that they are very helpful as I have only to e.mail their office and the information has arrived by post. Very useful as it saves me a journey.
I have on the 1851 census a Thomas Cooper ag. labourer 60 yr. bn.Ramsholt mrd. to a Mary shopkeeper 41 yr. bn. Stelton ??. Do you think that there is any connection? It may be that Thomas had lost his first wife and married again.
I do not know if you have a programme to produce family trees but they are getting quite impressive now.
Thanks again for the records that you have forwarded.
Best wishes John
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annes
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 662
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Hello John, thanks for reply.
I know what you mean about knowing where to draw the line, I have put together one tree showing direct descendents only, and then I've also typed a more detailed tree for each "family", showing siblings etc. I therefore have a Cooper Family tree and detailed notes attached. I say typed, because at present I have typed all my family trees on Word, quite time consuming but something I've enjoyed doing. I would be very interested to know if you have found a successful programme to produce a more professional looking tree.
I have seen the entry for Thomas Cooper on 1851 census that you mean. Interested you think Mary was bn Stelton, it wasn't clear to me either, but I guessed at Melton!! There may be a connection to Robert, I don't know.
I am quite frustrated that I have not been able to find a baptism for Robert Cooper, bn 1823/1825, because then we'd know exact year of birth and names of parents . I definitely can't see it in Ramsholt register although he was born there. Another time I'll try looking in registers of nearby parishes just in case.
Anyway, thanks once again for your time and reply,
Best wishes, Anne
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johnpeel
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 93
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Hi Anne ,
Thanks for the return message and I must say that I have found it a lot easier to use a programme to collate all the information and to make the necessary changes as they appear.
I have invested in a programme "Family Tree Maker 2005" and find it very easy to use and modify any changes that appear as information appears.
I bought it at a discounted price of £ 29.50 , the normal price is £39.50 but it is worth looking around for offers as it has a good write up. Individual families can be displayed or complete family trees can be presented.
Many thanks for your help and best wishes Johnpeel
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