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Topic: Completely stuck in York (Read 689 times)
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Arquebus
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 266
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I would welcome any advice or assistance with this problem, please.
Having tried many posts for Harriet Swales and her son Thomas, without too much success in finding who Thomas' father was, we have finally tracked down Harriet with baby Tom in the Shambles York on the 1851 Census......Here she is named as Harriet Swales, but there is also a Thomas Metcalfe (gardener)......they appear to be living as 'brother and sister' !
We are aware that Harriet has a brother Frederick Swales...it seems their mother was Mary Swale/s, and was probably unmarried....although we have seen some evidence of a William Swales with a Mary....perhaps they just didn't marry?
We could assume (dangerous) that Thomas Metcalfe is the father of young Thomas, but we cannot prove this and frankly, how can we prove it?
We have established that young Thomas when he married, he unfortunately named his father as William Swales (deceased) which confuses the issue further.
Obviously we need to establish the line, because everybody in the family has believed they were 'Swales' whereas they may well all be Metcalfe!
We can't even DNA anyone (not that we are that well off) because we cannot track this particular Metcalfe in any direction.
Does anyone have a suggestion, clue, or whatevva?
Thanks Glynis.
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ENFIELD...Colchester, DEARY & DIX...Norfolk & Oz, SLOLEY / SYMONS...Fremington Devon, BAKER...Deopham Norfolk, BANTACK...Ixworth, ALLISON...Suffolk / ALLISTON / ELLISTON/E...North East Essex, HOW /HOWE...North East Essex, SWALES..York / Middlesboro,METCALFE...York, WOODS / MOLLETT / GREEN....Norwich, BRATTY...N.Ireland (Derry and Belfast), MORGAN...Bicknor / Coleford Glos. & Middlesboro. FENN / WENDEN / ROOKARD....North East Essex. SNOW...Hampstead & Devon. BULL...Colchester.
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Ticker
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4514
Genealogists live in the past lane.
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Hi Glynis
Sorry we haven't been able to help you so far on this one.
Have you made any progress, or do you have any further details that could help someone to find what you are looking for?
Look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes
Ticker
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Arquebus
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 266
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Hi Ticker......Thanks for the interest.....No, We haven't got any further with this and despite tons of digging (not in the graveyards though....too many Swales!) we haven't found any more info on them either.
Oddly, we can no longer find the 1851 census image of Harriet, young Thomas and Thomas Metcalfe....they were living at Norrisons or (Morrisons) Yard, The Shambles, York.
We cannot find any evidence of Harriet Swales or her mother (Mary?) Swale/s on the 1841 census....Harriet was born appx 1827 as far as we can tell (mother unmarried also, we think)
We do know that Thomas Swales married Sarah Anne Morgan, where they lived (Middlesborough), generally who his children are / were (several missing/ lost track of etc), where he appears to have died (York) and the fact that Sarah Anne Swales (nee Morgan) remarried after Thomas Swales death....to a Thomas Baker.
They moved to (I think....need to check) somewhere like Northallerton.
If anyone spots anything we would be grateful......
Thanks, Glynis......PS we are so busy at present, a PM might be the best way of contacting us.
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ENFIELD...Colchester, DEARY & DIX...Norfolk & Oz, SLOLEY / SYMONS...Fremington Devon, BAKER...Deopham Norfolk, BANTACK...Ixworth, ALLISON...Suffolk / ALLISTON / ELLISTON/E...North East Essex, HOW /HOWE...North East Essex, SWALES..York / Middlesboro,METCALFE...York, WOODS / MOLLETT / GREEN....Norwich, BRATTY...N.Ireland (Derry and Belfast), MORGAN...Bicknor / Coleford Glos. & Middlesboro. FENN / WENDEN / ROOKARD....North East Essex. SNOW...Hampstead & Devon. BULL...Colchester.
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katherinem
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 595
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The 1851 census you mentioned is still there but the name Swales has been transcribed as Tealer! Anyway I've reproduced the details below:
Norrison's Passage, York - HO107/2355, Folio 265, Page 5
Thomas Metcalf, Head, U, 50, Gardener, York, city
Harriet Swales, Visitor, U, 24 " "
Thomas " , Son, 8mo " "
I am not too sure whether I would have interpreted this as living as brother and sister!
Kath
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Bladen (Tipton, & Yorks), Teece, Cooke(Coalville), Stott (Staffs), Carr, Armitage, Henrickson, Lisle (Yorks), Pailing, Stott, Leach, Davies (Llanasa), Taylor, McDonald, Garry, Brackenbury, Brand, Rewston Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Emsworthy
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4195
Bert & Ernie...we love you!!!
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Hi,
1841
Belfrey, Bootham, St Michael le Belfrey, Yorkshire
Thomas Wales, 20, Groom, Y
Mary Wales, 25, Y
Elizabeth Wales, 3mths, Y
Harriett Swales, 14, F S, Y
Harriett appears to be sharing with the family above here - maybe Wales should have been Swales?
HO107/1241/3 Page ?
Regards, Emma 
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« Last Edit: Sunday 28 May 06 17:36 BST (UK) by Copyright-Editor »
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~Census Transcriptions, Crown Copyright, National Archives~ All Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukWarner (Essex) Edgley (Suffolk) Blake & Sparrowhawk (Lambeth) Hall & Gibson (Co. Durham) Brown (Yorkshire) |
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katherinem
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 595
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In 1861, Harriet and Thomas (written as Thos) are Inmate Paupers at the Bootham Workhouse, Clifton, it might be worth checking with York Archives to see if any of the records from the Workhouse have survived.
Kath
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Bladen (Tipton, & Yorks), Teece, Cooke(Coalville), Stott (Staffs), Carr, Armitage, Henrickson, Lisle (Yorks), Pailing, Stott, Leach, Davies (Llanasa), Taylor, McDonald, Garry, Brackenbury, Brand, Rewston Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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rjknott
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1355
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You haven't mentioned Thomas' birth certifcate. Presumably you have that and it doesn't list a father. If not the birth in the Sep 1850 index looks a likely one.
The bmd index does have an Elizabeth Agnes Wales down for York Mar 1841, so it doesn't look like a mistake on the 1841 census.
The possible brother (Frederick John b 1822) appears to be in other censuses eg 1871) if you want details.
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« Last Edit: Monday 19 June 06 09:57 BST (UK) by rjknott »
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Knott,Boutell,Warman,Winder,Webster,Uings,Evans,Drage
Pike,Pike,Watson,Pratt,Homewood,Stephenson,Brown,Pattison
Holmes,Tomlinson,Moorby,Cardus,Gill,Lambert,Binns,Emmott
Fenning,Pudney,Wilson,Walker,Hine,Treeby,Knox,Butler
Jack,Carswell,Gardiner,Alexander,Gibb,Watson,Naismith,Telfer
Gray,Inglis,Gibb,Watson,Taylor,Taylor,Gaff,Henderson
Gayford,Clarke,Palmer,Jessup,Smart,Hutson,Lloyd,Northover
Ridley,Lee,?,Mingings,Moore,Colthart,Lawson,Hind
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Arquebus
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 266
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Sorry I haven't kept up with this....we have been so busy with work and older family members who need some assistance (and some that have died).
Anyway, thank you all so much for this information.....so it looks as though after all, the name Metcalfe is probably the right bloodline/surname rather than Swales and that should be Wales, anyway!!!
I am not surprised I don't appear to have any roots!
If any of you have the details to hand, I would be most grateful.....It is going to take me ages to catch up!
Thanks again....this is all very much apperciated.
Glynis.
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ENFIELD...Colchester, DEARY & DIX...Norfolk & Oz, SLOLEY / SYMONS...Fremington Devon, BAKER...Deopham Norfolk, BANTACK...Ixworth, ALLISON...Suffolk / ALLISTON / ELLISTON/E...North East Essex, HOW /HOWE...North East Essex, SWALES..York / Middlesboro,METCALFE...York, WOODS / MOLLETT / GREEN....Norwich, BRATTY...N.Ireland (Derry and Belfast), MORGAN...Bicknor / Coleford Glos. & Middlesboro. FENN / WENDEN / ROOKARD....North East Essex. SNOW...Hampstead & Devon. BULL...Colchester.
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animet
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 173
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So you're looking for Thomas Metcalfe b York circa 1801?
Is Harriet a Metcalfe as well?
Anita
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Arquebus
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 266
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The answers are Yes and No.
Harriet appears to have been a Swales (or Swale) (or now it seems possibly a Wales as the thread has suggested)
Harriets mother (Mary?) appears to have been unmarried.
Thomas Metcalfe may have been the father of Harriets son Thomas (who on his birth cert 1850 is Swales /no father, and is on his wedding cert he is Swales / father William!....we know Harriet was unmarried 1871 census)
We have seen and lost evidence of Thomas Metcalfe being recorded as 'sister' to Harriet!....this was at Norrisons Yard, The Shambles, York census 1841.
You will see on the thread, Thomas and Harriet have a differing relationship.
Also, we have also seen evidence, but lost it, thet Thomas Metcalfe was born about 1821 (so he would have been 30 in 1841)...this differs again from the other info in the ealier thread reply.
We are wondering if two census documents exist to start off with, which might expalin the two ages of Thomas Metcalfe (and explain why we can't track him down)
This Harriet (prior to 1850 and after 1871) is a complete mystery to us.
Anything in the way of clues that people come across will be gratefully received......
Thanks Glynis.
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ENFIELD...Colchester, DEARY & DIX...Norfolk & Oz, SLOLEY / SYMONS...Fremington Devon, BAKER...Deopham Norfolk, BANTACK...Ixworth, ALLISON...Suffolk / ALLISTON / ELLISTON/E...North East Essex, HOW /HOWE...North East Essex, SWALES..York / Middlesboro,METCALFE...York, WOODS / MOLLETT / GREEN....Norwich, BRATTY...N.Ireland (Derry and Belfast), MORGAN...Bicknor / Coleford Glos. & Middlesboro. FENN / WENDEN / ROOKARD....North East Essex. SNOW...Hampstead & Devon. BULL...Colchester.
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