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Topic: William WINTER and Jane LEWIS (Read 1122 times)
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fyremoon
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
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Is anyone researching this couple? I'm not quite sure if I have the right place, but I have an Edward Winter, born in London, with these two as his parents. From what I can find there was a marriage between a William Winter and Jane Lewis in Haverfordwest in 1874. I *think* this is my couple. If so they must have moved to London some time before about 1878 when Edward was born.
I found an 1881 Census return from London, that had a William Winter, b.about 1840 in Tenby, Pembrokeshire, a Jane Winter, b. abt 1851 Hackney, Middlesex and three children, one Edward b. Kensington, London 1877.
How can I tell if the William and Jane from this census are the William and Jane who married in Haverfordwest, and if they are indeed *my* Edward's parents?
I'm in Australia, and not near any big libraries, so research is mostly done online. Wouldn't it be great if I come across someone who's researching these Winters too!
LW 
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Sue53
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 86
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Hi Fyremoon,
Just had a quick look re this, at the 1871 census for England, A Wm Winter born 1840 Tenby, is living in London, single, and the head of a draper shop. It's a bit late here now and the eyes are going but will look at this again if you want and give you more details.
If you have Edwards birth cert it will give you Jane's or his mothers maiden name, William and Jane's marriage cert would also have her maiden name on it + both their fathers names.
I hope that makes sense. Regards Sue.
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Paternal;
Pembrokeshire...James,Jenkins,Howell,John,Scourfield,Rees,Skone,Cook.
Essex...Lofts, Reader.
Maternal;
Berkshire...Beckenham,Bacon,Gibbons.
Ulverston...Beckenham,Postlethwaite.
Muker & Burnley...Alderson,Parker,Lee.
Flyde...Hodgson.
Liverpool...Clark.
This information is Crown Copyright from WWW.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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fyremoon
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
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Thanks Sue!
That's interesting, those London Winters from the drapers shop may well be my lot.
I don't have many birth details for my GGfather Edward, which is partly what I'm trying to find. I only have his marriage certificate from here in Australia, which states that he was born in London, age 32, his father, William Winter was a draper and his mother was Jane Lewis. Now I don't know if the William and Jane from 1881 are that same pair, and their second-born is my Edward, or if they're a coincidental family and I'm totally off track.
The only marriage index I've been able to find online for a William Winter and Jane Lewis is that one in 1874 in Haverfordwest - the fact that this William the draper is still single in 1871 census lends weight to the theory that he's the same one who married that Jane... but it's all conjecture really, as I don't have access to any of the documents to check if they hold further info.
Thank you so much for posting a reply Sue My query's been sitting here for months getting lonely  Much appreciated. Any further details you might happen across would be much appreciated.
Leigh
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ec
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 644
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Hi
I think you have likely identified the couple in the 1881 census, but I think the marriage you found is unlikely - if Jane was from Hackney and William was originally from Pembrokeshire, but in London by 1871 with a drapers business, I think it is unlikely they would have travelled to Haverfordwest to marry. This is possibly more likely a marriage
Marriages Dec 1871
Lewis Jane Poplar 1c 1375
Marrion Robert Poplar 1c 1375
Waite Mary Ann Poplar 1c 1375
Winter William Poplar 1c 1375
EC
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Sue53
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 86
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Hi again,
Great news re wedding, had crossed my mind might be wrong as had they gone back to Wales they would have married in Tenby probably.
Free BMD threw this up
Edward Winter Kensington District, Vol 1a, Page 118,
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=43204247&d=bmd_1126009863
with this info you can send for the birth and marriage cert from here,
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
Will have a look at Census images soon and get back to you. Sue.
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Paternal;
Pembrokeshire...James,Jenkins,Howell,John,Scourfield,Rees,Skone,Cook.
Essex...Lofts, Reader.
Maternal;
Berkshire...Beckenham,Bacon,Gibbons.
Ulverston...Beckenham,Postlethwaite.
Muker & Burnley...Alderson,Parker,Lee.
Flyde...Hodgson.
Liverpool...Clark.
This information is Crown Copyright from WWW.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Sue53
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 86
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Mhttp://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
mmmmmmmmm hope this one works.
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Paternal;
Pembrokeshire...James,Jenkins,Howell,John,Scourfield,Rees,Skone,Cook.
Essex...Lofts, Reader.
Maternal;
Berkshire...Beckenham,Bacon,Gibbons.
Ulverston...Beckenham,Postlethwaite.
Muker & Burnley...Alderson,Parker,Lee.
Flyde...Hodgson.
Liverpool...Clark.
This information is Crown Copyright from WWW.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Sue53
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 86
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http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
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Paternal;
Pembrokeshire...James,Jenkins,Howell,John,Scourfield,Rees,Skone,Cook.
Essex...Lofts, Reader.
Maternal;
Berkshire...Beckenham,Bacon,Gibbons.
Ulverston...Beckenham,Postlethwaite.
Muker & Burnley...Alderson,Parker,Lee.
Flyde...Hodgson.
Liverpool...Clark.
This information is Crown Copyright from WWW.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Sue53
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 86
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1871 C England RG10/15 F73 P1
name dob place of birth occupation location
Fanny S Almore abt 1853 Middlesex Assistant Paddington london
Emma Baldwin abt 1851 Harwich Assistant Paddington London
Mary Davarn abt 1850 Portsmouth, Middlesex, England Assistant Paddington London
Mary Janes abt 1851 S Wales, Wales Servant Paddington London Alice Sandbrook abt 1870 London, Middlesex, England Daughter Paddington London
Annie Sandbrook abt 1837 S Wales, Wales Wife Paddington London
Elizabeth Sandbrook abt 1858 S Wales, Wales Daughter Paddington London
William Sandbrook abt 1842 S Wales, Wales Head Paddington London
Mary Ann B Swan abt 1852 Cornwall, England Assistant Paddington London
William Winter abt 1839 S Wales, Wales Head Paddington London
The address looks like 2 & 3 Desbow Place.
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Paternal;
Pembrokeshire...James,Jenkins,Howell,John,Scourfield,Rees,Skone,Cook.
Essex...Lofts, Reader.
Maternal;
Berkshire...Beckenham,Bacon,Gibbons.
Ulverston...Beckenham,Postlethwaite.
Muker & Burnley...Alderson,Parker,Lee.
Flyde...Hodgson.
Liverpool...Clark.
This information is Crown Copyright from WWW.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Sue53
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 86
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1891C RG12/26 F3 P2.
The address looks like 172 Portabello Rd. William is a widower.
Winter, Daisy M abt 1886 Kensington, London, England Daughter Kensington London
Winter, Dorothy G abt 1885 Kensington, London, England Daughter Kensington London
Winter, Edward abt 1877 Kensington, London, England Son Kensington London
Winter, William abt 1834 Tenby, Pembrokeshire, Wales Head Kensington London
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Paternal;
Pembrokeshire...James,Jenkins,Howell,John,Scourfield,Rees,Skone,Cook.
Essex...Lofts, Reader.
Maternal;
Berkshire...Beckenham,Bacon,Gibbons.
Ulverston...Beckenham,Postlethwaite.
Muker & Burnley...Alderson,Parker,Lee.
Flyde...Hodgson.
Liverpool...Clark.
This information is Crown Copyright from WWW.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Sue53
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 86
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1901C RG13/28 F 12 P 15
Still at 172 Portabello Rd.
Elizabeth Mitchead abt 1855 Chelsea, London, England Servant Kensington London
Annie Winter abt 1850 Hereford, Herefordshire, England Wife Kensington London
Dorothy G Winter abt 1885 Kensington, London, England Daughter Milliners apprentice Kensington London
William Winter abt 1840 Tenby, Pembrokeshire, Wales Head Draper Kensington London
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Paternal;
Pembrokeshire...James,Jenkins,Howell,John,Scourfield,Rees,Skone,Cook.
Essex...Lofts, Reader.
Maternal;
Berkshire...Beckenham,Bacon,Gibbons.
Ulverston...Beckenham,Postlethwaite.
Muker & Burnley...Alderson,Parker,Lee.
Flyde...Hodgson.
Liverpool...Clark.
This information is Crown Copyright from WWW.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Sue53
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 86
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1901C RG13/192 F112 P8
I think this may be your Edward. The 1901C is free on Ancestry.co.uk until the end of this month.
41 Northampton St. Occupation Hot water filter. ??
Edward Winter abt 1879 Islington, London, England Head Islington London
Rosina Winter abt 1880 Islington, London, England Wife Islington London
Rosina A Winter abt 1900 Islington, London, England Daughter Islington London
Hope this a help, Good luck with the rest. Sue.
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Paternal;
Pembrokeshire...James,Jenkins,Howell,John,Scourfield,Rees,Skone,Cook.
Essex...Lofts, Reader.
Maternal;
Berkshire...Beckenham,Bacon,Gibbons.
Ulverston...Beckenham,Postlethwaite.
Muker & Burnley...Alderson,Parker,Lee.
Flyde...Hodgson.
Liverpool...Clark.
This information is Crown Copyright from WWW.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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fyremoon
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
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Oh Sue thanks so much for all that info!! You've been quite busy! I'm so pleased to have something to go on. We dont' know if any of this is my family, but it's a great start!
You know, in teh 1901 census where William has remarried an Annie - well I remembered that there was an Annie Arden in earlier censuses working for the family as a servant, and wondered if William might have married her. I found this:
Arden, Annie
1899 December Marriages Kensington Greater London London Middlesex
Browne, Frederic
1899 December Marriages Kensington Greater London London Middlesex
Summers, Eliza
1899 December Marriages Kensington Greater London London Middlesex
Winter, William
1899 December Marriages Kensington Greater London London Middlesex
so it would appear I'm correct and the Annie Winter in 1901 was the long-time employee!
Also of great interest is the Edward Winter you found married to Rosina. If he is indeed *MY* Edward that's intriguing because my fellow came out here and married in 1910 and went on to have a family. Apparently he was quite tight-lipped about his past and didn't keep in touch with folk 'back home' - I wonder if this is why!!? Due to catch up with family next week and will certainly be asking if they know anything!
I couldnt' access the first link you sent me with Edward's birth details but got the details from your post and also searched freeBDM myself wtih teh same result. Can you tell me what details are on a birth certificate of that era?
Thanks again, for so much help, I appreciate it!
Leigh
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ec
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 644
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Hi fyremoon
If you get the birth cert of one of the children it will give you the fathers name and occupation, the mothers maiden name and also the address of birth and address of the informant (usually mother or father) at the time of the registration.
Given that you have a William and an Edward and these are not uncommon names, I think I would be tempted to go for the birth cert for Daisy - this is easily identifiable on FREEBMD -
Births Dec 1875
Winter Daisy Marion Kensington 1a 135
Do you have Edwards marriage cert in Australia - did it say he was a widow or single (not familiar with the format of Australian certs)
ec
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fyremoon
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
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HI ec
Yes I have Edward's marriage cert. and it states that he was a bachelor. It states his place of birth as London, England, and his occupation as 'Mercher' I dont' know what that is, but I do that he opened a menswear store in Sydney (which I haven't been able to find anything about yet, frustrating) so I'm thinking that perhaps it means 'Mercer'. It says he's 32 (this is in Nov 1910) and give his parents names (that's where I found them out) and his father's occupation as 'Draper' - which is why I'm inclined to believe the Portobello Rd Winters are his parents... although *that* Edward's birth year, 1877, is a little off from his marriage cert. age, but I don't know what the protocol was back then.
I like your idea of going for Daisy's birth certificate. That should show if it was a Jane Lewis or some other Jane right?
Leigh
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