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Topic: Tracing a S.A. relative through military records (Read 984 times)
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Timbottawa
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Alice Baldwin circa 1920
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I believe that the Henry (H.J.) BUTLER shown on the CWGC site as being buried in grave 96784A in Maitland (Cape Town) Cemetery is my great uncle. His service number was 169898V.
Does anyone know whether it may be possible to trace his next of kin through the cemetery or military service records?
Thanks for any advice
Tim
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Boyle, Butler, Yarborough, Baldwin, Midwood, McHale, Carter, Noble, Kay, Raper, Greenwood, Swift
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rutti tutti
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Tim please see the posting on Pauline
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izabel
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hi tim. i tried to run the force number with the military today but got no revery *friendly* persons. what unit did h j butler serve with. izabel
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Timbottawa
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Alice Baldwin circa 1920
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Hi Izabel,
Thanks for trying to help out. The only information I have comes from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site. It shows him as having served with the rank of Captain in the General Service Corps, S. A Forces, date of death 6/12/1943.
Hope this helps.
All the best
Tim
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Boyle, Butler, Yarborough, Baldwin, Midwood, McHale, Carter, Noble, Kay, Raper, Greenwood, Swift
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izabel
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hi tim, general services corp is what i know as the personnel corps. I have contacted the army records in pretoria and you have to fax as much detail as you can to
Documentation Centre - Personnel Records
012 3394631
They will send you a ocmplete history of his military record. Please include a fax or postal adress for yourself and dont forget to include his force no and unit.
i have also given his info to Mrs Butler here in Pmb who is researching the butler family. If she makes any connection i will let you know. Hope this helps. izabel
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Timbottawa
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Alice Baldwin circa 1920
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Hi Izabel,
Thanks so much for your help and advice. I'll follow up as you suggest, and I'll let you know what happens.
In case you missed the link to another thread on the same board (and in the unlikely case that your Mrs Butler and I are related - it's a common name, unfortunately  ), Henry James had a daughter named Pauline, who apparently went by the name Paula. She was born about 1925, and may well have married a fellow named John Sievwright in the early 1950's, divorcing in 1957. This is all a bit speculative, though!
Henry James' father, named Henry Thomas Butler, emigrated from the UK about 1910 (when Henry J was about 12). He was an actor and theatrical manager all his life, and returned to the UK in the mid-40's, to die in 1948.
Thanks again
Tim
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izabel
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hi tim, do you think that your Butler could have come out during the boer war and joined a south african unit? I have found records that the Maitland area was used as an army base during the boer war and that a lot of soldiers stayed on after that. If he died in 1943 he could have been in his early twenties when he came out. Do you have a date of birth for him. Izabel
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Timbottawa
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Alice Baldwin circa 1920
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Hi Izabel,
No, Henry James BUTLER was born in 1900, in Castleford, W. Yorks. His father, Henry Thomas BUTLER emigrated sometime around 1910 (I don't know for sure, but he was pictured at his brother's wedding in 1906), taking the 10-yr-old Henry James with him.
The father, Henry Thomas, returned to the UK about 1947, and died in Blackpool, Lancs in January 1948. Of course, Henry James was dead by then, killed in WW2. Henry James' daughter, Pauline (Paula) visited the UK as a 19-year-old in around 1946 (see separate thread on her).
By the way, I wrote to the Army Records in Pretoria, as you suggested. I gave them phone, fax, email contacts, and my mailing address, but have heard nothing at all from them.
All the best
Tim
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Timbottawa
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Alice Baldwin circa 1920
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Just to update ... I returned from Xmas holidays and found a nice bulky envelope from Pretoria, with Henry James BUTLER's full service records! Seems he died not from wounds, but from a long, lingering duodenal ulcer, and several other medical problems.
Izabel ... I may need to consult with you concerning some S. African-specific place-names, once I've digested all the information.
Cheers
Tim
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izabel
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Thats great news Tim. Ill help anytime. Should think he contracted the ulcer from the Officers Mess!!!. Regards Izabel
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Timbottawa
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Alice Baldwin circa 1920
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Many thanks again, Izabel, for your offer of help.
Careful scrutiny of the records and some judicious Googling have answered most of my questions. However, I wonder if you (or anyone else) is familiar with the Durban district (suburb?) of Umbilo? This is where Henry's wife lived during his service. I ask because family legend has it that she might have been from a wealthy textile family, so I wonder whether Umbilo is (or was in the mid 20th C) an upper class area, or more middle/working class. The street address was 35 Wadley Rd.
Cheers
Tim
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izabel
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Hi Tim, Umbilo is now predominately an Indian area. Rutti the moderator lives in Durbs and has quite a knowledge of the area. I will look from my side as well, but give her a call she may be able to offer information. Izabel
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Timbottawa
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Alice Baldwin circa 1920
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Hi Izabel (sorry, I was travelling for a few days),
Thanks for the info - I guess Umbilo would probably have been a textile centre then, or am I being guilty of racial stereotyping?
Anyway, today I received a copy of the death notice of Henry James Butler from PMB archives. The notice gives his wife's maiden name (and reveals that this was his second marriage), and also confirms that his daughter's full name was Pauline Shirley Butler, meaning the marriage of Pauline to Sievwright which I'd previously located is the right one, because the middle name is given as Shirley. From the S. African white pages, I've found 5 Sievwrights still living in the Durban/Natal area (one in Umbilo!), so I shall phone each of them and hope to get a hit!
A covering letter from the PMB archives stated: "We are unable to provide photocopies from the Deceased Estate files due to their fragile condition. .. Application can be made to the office of the Master of the High Court for certified copies from the Deceased Estate files. It costs R4, 50 in revenue stamps per document. Their address is ... Since you are residing abroad, may I suggest you contact private researchers on the list attached and make arrangement with regard to the payment for the required copies"
A question ... do you recommend I take their advice and hire a researcher? I have a friend living in Pretoria - wouldn't it be easy for him to buy R4.50 in revenue stamps? What does he do ... just buy them and put them in an envelope?
Thanks for your further advice.
All the best
Tim
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izabel
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Hi Tim, Im not sure - I would not put stamps in an envelope and send them away unless registered. Im going into the archives next month to look up for other people - can you wait that long and I will ask what the best way to get copies is. If its not a huge document I can write it down and forward to you. Izabel
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Timbottawa
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Alice Baldwin circa 1920
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Hi Izabel,
That's very kind of you. I can certainly be patient after having taken so long to get this far!
The reference information is:
DEPOT NAB
SOURCE MSCE
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 00
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 85/1944
PART 1
DESCRIPTION BUTLER, HENRY JAMES. S/SP BUTLER, ELIZABETH KATHRINA.
STARTING 19430000
ENDING 19470000
They sent me the death notice, but not a copy of the estate papers. If you could have a look, I'm really interested in any clues as to the existence or location of other family members. For example, Pauline ... is there an address (I guess she would have been living with her birth mother). Also, any other children? The death notice suggests not, but you never know.
Many thanks - that would be a great help!
Cheers
Tim
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