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Topic: Alexander and Janet English Dalziel (Read 1266 times)
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nathandl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
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Hello,
I'm looking for information about an Alexander Dalziel and Janet English Dalziel who settled in Wigtownshire in mid 19th century. They had 5 children Andrew Dalziel - Whithorn; Alexander Dalziel - Edinburgh; Grace Dalziel - died young; Robert Dalziel and Elizabeth Dalziel. Alexander and Janet came from Ireland originally ... would be so much appreciated ... been stuck at this point for some time.
Many thanx:
Nathan Dalziel
Iowa, US
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woodydog
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 389
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Hello- could you give us any more information? Birth years for Alexander & Janet maybe or the details from the most recent census that you have them on- I'm in Wigtownshire so I might be able to help if you can give us more to work on.
All the best
Rose
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Pratt- Catterick/Richmond N.Yorks & Wilsden/Halifax West Yorks Maylor- Preston/ Poulton Le Fylde Whitaker- Halifax Dixon- London & Yorkshire Booth-Middleton,Oldham,Royton,Lancs Boyling-Oldham,Royton & Shropshire Harris- Bradford, Prestwich Manchester SMITH!! Kirkcaldy, Manchester Sturgess- Preston Candover, Hampshire & London Nixon- London Walters- London & Hampshire Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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nathandl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
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Well, this is all the information i have so far ... Alexander and Janet both came from Northern Ireland. They were married in Ireland and passed over to Stranraer, Scotland and finally to Wigtownshire. Also an interesting piece of information ... Alexander and Janet died wihtin hours of each other and were buried the same day... I know the oldest son Andrew was born ca. 1844 ... in Whithorn. He and wife Georgina are buried at St. Ninians Cemetary, Whithorn. I will try to find more specific dates on Alexander and Janet...
Many Thanks
Nathan
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woodydog
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 389
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UUUUUMMMM! Now I am confused- the only census info that I have access to at home are the 1881 on disc & 1851 census online.
In 1881 I've found Andrew Married to Georgina living at 4 Drummond Hill Cottage, Whithorn with their 7 children- Janet-15,Elizabeth 11, John 9, Isabella 6, Grace4, George 3, & Samuel 1, all children bar Janet are born in Glasserton- Andrew,Georgina & Janet born Whithorn.
So checking back to 1851 living at Claymoddie in Glasserton parish children Andrew,Alexander, Robert, Elizabeth & Agnes BUT......
the father is Samuel- head- farm labourer(yearly) age 36 born Ireland with Wife Elizabeth age 31 born Whithorn! I can't find an Alexander or Janet born in Ireland or elsewhere with any children that match your names at all so can you tell me how you know that Andrew's parents are definitely Alexander & Janet. Just to let you know Stranraer is also in Wigtownshire but the main route over from Ireland at that time was to Portpatrick(also in Wigtownshire).
Let me know what you think about the census info I've given you but for now I'm a bit stumped !!
Hope to hear back from you soon
Rose
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Pratt- Catterick/Richmond N.Yorks & Wilsden/Halifax West Yorks Maylor- Preston/ Poulton Le Fylde Whitaker- Halifax Dixon- London & Yorkshire Booth-Middleton,Oldham,Royton,Lancs Boyling-Oldham,Royton & Shropshire Harris- Bradford, Prestwich Manchester SMITH!! Kirkcaldy, Manchester Sturgess- Preston Candover, Hampshire & London Nixon- London Walters- London & Hampshire Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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nathandl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
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Well let's see ... so we know for sure that the information I have on Andrew the oldest son is accurate. The strange part is ... I have information on 13 kids from Andrew and Georgina ... which might have happened after 1881. Unfortunately all I have to go on is a Dalziel Family book put together rather elementary.
What see what I can find from my closest ties to Scotland ... My gg grandfather David Pettigrew Dalziel b. 20-May-1870 Wigtownshire. (Son of Robert and Helen Pettigrew Dalziel) Came to America in 1892.
Now his Father Robert lived in the Whithorn area .... married Helen in 1863 ... had 8 children Elizabeth (1864), Helen (1866), Mary (1866), Samuel (1868?), David (1870), Robert (1872), Jane (?), Ellen (?) ... but again no birthdate or date of death... all i have is that Robert is the 4th of 5 children from Alexander and Janet ... maybe .... 
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nathandl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
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the thing about the census info ... is there was no Agnes ... and the 1881 census of Andrew and Georgina had 13 kids ... but again no dates so i'm sure they had the rest after 1881 ... all the children are pretty young so that's that... still I'm trying to find the ties to Ireland ... because I wish to know which part of Scotland my name originated from. and when the Dalziel's left Scotland for Ireland... it's a long journey ... too bad my family hasn't gone a little further with this ... oh, well it's fun!
Nathan Dean Dalziel
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woodydog
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 389
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Ok- now we're getting somewhere....
1881 census- living at Morrach cot house No.3, Whithorn
Robert Dalziel -head-39-farm serv- B. Whithorn
Ellen Dalziel-wife-41-b. Inch parish, Wigtownshire
Mary- dau-15-working stockings & C?- b. Glasserton
Ellen-dau-15-farm serv-b. Glasserton
David-son-11-scholar-b.Whithorn
Robert-son-scholar-b.whithorn
Jane-dau-6-b.whithorn
Samuel-4-born Whithorn
Andrew-2-b.whithorn
As you can see both Helens are transcribed as Ellens & interestingly we seem to have gained a Samuel- maybe Samuel (in the 1851 census) was a brother of Alexander or maybe your Alexanders name was Alexander Samuel or even Samuel Alexander and the family flipped the names around- I know one of my family members did!!!
I'll have a look at the 1851 census again now I'm armed with some better information everything might become clear- she says hopefully!
Bye for now
Rose
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Pratt- Catterick/Richmond N.Yorks & Wilsden/Halifax West Yorks Maylor- Preston/ Poulton Le Fylde Whitaker- Halifax Dixon- London & Yorkshire Booth-Middleton,Oldham,Royton,Lancs Boyling-Oldham,Royton & Shropshire Harris- Bradford, Prestwich Manchester SMITH!! Kirkcaldy, Manchester Sturgess- Preston Candover, Hampshire & London Nixon- London Walters- London & Hampshire Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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woodydog
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 389
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OK- in 1851 there are 3 Dalziel families listed in the Glasserton/Whithorn area and are as follows:-
Living at Claymoddie, Glasserton
Samuel Dalziel- head-36-labourer farm (yearly)-born Ireland
Elizabeth Dalziel-wife-31-b. whithorn
Robert-son-8-b.whithorn
Andrew-son-7=b.whithorn
Alexander-son-5-b.whithorn
Agnes-dau-1-b. Glasserton
I think this is your family even if the parents names are wrong
Living at Ravenstone Moor, Glasserton
Alexander dalziel-head-widower-65-Blacksmith b. Wigtown, Wigtownshire
William Dalziel-son-28-b. Kirkinner, Wigtownshire - no occ listed
Could this be Samuels father & this is where the Alexander & Janet link comes from? He may have been working in Ireland when he met Janet??? but was born in Wigtownshire.
Living at Larroch,Glasserton
David Dalziel-head-umarried-28-farmer of 138 acres employing 3 men- b. Glasserton
Mary Dalziel-mother-widow-64-born Ireland
There are no Alexander or Janet Dalziel listed as born in Ireland and no other Alexanders who fit the dates we have for the childrens births.
From the Freepress there is an entry for a marriage
Dalziel- Helen- m. 27/11/1891 at Whithorn on the 27 ult byt Rev. D.Henry. Second daughter of Robert Dalziel late of Newmilns.
Married to george Mann, Barnultuch, Stranraer
1855 death records show-
William Alexander Dalziel 34 years .Blacksmith 34 years. b. Cairnfield, Kirkinner lived in Glasserton for 17 years. Parents Alexander Dalziel (blacksmith) & Margaret McClumpha deceased. Married Agnes Moore- children Margaret,3,John,1,.
Died on Feb 23 at 5.40am at Ravenston, Glasserton of pleuritus with suspected complication of liver & kidney disease 7-10 weeks-cetified by Dunbar White M.D.- last saw the deceased on Feb 222- Buried in Wigtown burial ground. Signed Agnes Dalziel,widow- registered on Feb 24 at Glasserton, James Gilford registrar.
That's it for now- let me know your thoughts
Rose
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Pratt- Catterick/Richmond N.Yorks & Wilsden/Halifax West Yorks Maylor- Preston/ Poulton Le Fylde Whitaker- Halifax Dixon- London & Yorkshire Booth-Middleton,Oldham,Royton,Lancs Boyling-Oldham,Royton & Shropshire Harris- Bradford, Prestwich Manchester SMITH!! Kirkcaldy, Manchester Sturgess- Preston Candover, Hampshire & London Nixon- London Walters- London & Hampshire Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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woodydog
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 389
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I've been on the scotlands people website & here's what I've found-
David Carr Dalziel born 20 May 1870 0545 at Marrach- male
Father - Robert Dalziel- farm servant
Mother- Helen Carr Dalziel- maiden surname Pettigrew
Parents married June 2nd 1863
Birth registered- June 4th 1870 at Whithorn
Marriage of Robert & Helen
June 2nd 1863 at Whithorn after banns according to the forms of the United Presbytarian Church
Robert Dalzell(!) -26-occ-lamesmith(??) - farm servant- batchelor . Usual residence- Cults parish of ? (possibly Sorbie!!- father Samuel Dalzell- farm labourer Mother Elizabeth Dalzell -maiden surname Richardson
Married to- Helen Kerr Pettigrew- 22- domestic servant-spinster- usual residence- whithorn. Father Hugh Pettigrew- farm labourer & mother Elizabeth Pettigrew- maiden surname Connagh- deceased
Minister-James Fleming
Witnesses- James Smith & John McMillan
Samuel Dalziel- death 1879
farm labourer- married to Elizabeth Richardson.
Died July 13 1879- 0345hrs - Isle of Whithorn aged 66 years
Fathers surname- Robert Dalziel- farm labourer (Deceased)
Mothers name - unknown
Cause of death - Valvular disease of heart resulting in dropsy- duration indefinite
Doctor- William Anderson
Registered by Andrew Dalziel-son- present at the time of death on the 14 July at Whithorn to Robert Anderson(registrar).
So it's as I thought - maybe the Alexander & Janet bit comes in from Samuels son Alexander or is far earlier information than you first thought.
I'm really pleased to have found them but sorry it doesn't follow your book exactly- I know that information on my ancestors from the family always have nuggets of truth but memories fade & can be inaccurate . Hope this is of help & all the best-Rose
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Pratt- Catterick/Richmond N.Yorks & Wilsden/Halifax West Yorks Maylor- Preston/ Poulton Le Fylde Whitaker- Halifax Dixon- London & Yorkshire Booth-Middleton,Oldham,Royton,Lancs Boyling-Oldham,Royton & Shropshire Harris- Bradford, Prestwich Manchester SMITH!! Kirkcaldy, Manchester Sturgess- Preston Candover, Hampshire & London Nixon- London Walters- London & Hampshire Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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woodydog
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 389
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And there's more.......
1871 living at Arrow Ag Lab House 1 room with window
Samuel Dalziel-56-ag lab-Ireland
Elizabeth-52-wife-Whithorn
Jane-daur-14-scholar-whithorn
Grace-daur-10-scholar-whithorn
Andrew-grandson-5-sorbie
and at Morrach cot house
Robert Dalziel-head-28-ag lab-whithorn
Ellen Kerr Dalziel-30-born Inch
Elizabeth-daur-7-whithorn
Mary McNaught Dalziel-daur-5-glasserton
Ellen Dalziel-daur-5-glasserton
Samuel-son-2-whithorn
David Kerr Dalziel-son-10 months- whithorn
1891 census-
living at Craig Cothouse- 3 rooms with windows
Andrew Dalziel-45-ag lab-whithorn
Georgina-wife-44-whithorn
Elizabeth-daur-21-ag lab-Galsserton
John-son 19-ag lab-glasserton
Isabella-daur-16-ag lab-glasserton
George-son-13-scholar-glasserton
Samuel-son-11-scholar-glasserton
Annie Jane-daur-9-scholar-whithorn
Mary Ann- daur-6-scholar-whithorn
Robert-son-4-whithorn
James0son-3-whithorn
Maggie(??)-daur-2-whithorn
Alexander-grandson-5 months- whithorn
& next door !!!!!!!!
Robert English-44-ag lab-born Ireland
Mary-wife-35-Ireland
Robert (jnr.)-son-16-Ireland
William-son14-Inch, Wigtownshire
John-son-13-sorbie
Mary-daur-11-sorbie
Annie-daur-7-whithorn
Samuel-son-6-whithorn
David-son-4-whithorn
Joseph-son-2-whithorn
Phew!!!!!
On the Rootsweb wigtownshire pages there is a memeber researching the Dalziel family from Glasserton 1810-1879 (member number 212 it might be an idea to contact them- you can find them on the following link under members interests
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~leighann/index.html
That's it for now - must go & do some housework!!!!
All the best
Rose
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Pratt- Catterick/Richmond N.Yorks & Wilsden/Halifax West Yorks Maylor- Preston/ Poulton Le Fylde Whitaker- Halifax Dixon- London & Yorkshire Booth-Middleton,Oldham,Royton,Lancs Boyling-Oldham,Royton & Shropshire Harris- Bradford, Prestwich Manchester SMITH!! Kirkcaldy, Manchester Sturgess- Preston Candover, Hampshire & London Nixon- London Walters- London & Hampshire Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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woodydog
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 389
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and more.....................
Birth details from the IGI
Samuel Dalziel & Elizabeth Richardson family
Nothing for Robert,Andrew,Alexander or Agnes but.....
Grace born 7 march 1861 (Samuel noted as Dalzell)
Jane Johnston Richardson Dalzell b. 11 Oct 1856 Whithorn
also out of nowhere- John Hannah Dalzell b. 22 Jan 1859-whithorn
_______________________________________________
Robert Dalziel & Helen Pettigrew family
Elizabeth Richardson Dalzell (!) b.4 March 1864-whithorn
Mary McNaught (McNight) Dalziel-15 Feb 1866-Glasserton
Helen Dalziel-15 Feb 1866-Glasserton
Samuel-7 May 1868-whithorn
David Kerr (or Carr) Dalziel-20 May 1870-whithorn
Robert- 16 March 1872-whithorn
Jane-16 May 1874-whithorn
nothing for Andrew
Robert & Helen marriage- 2 June 1863 -whithorn
_______________________________________
Andrew & Georgina Milbie (different spellings Milby & Milnbie)
Marriage 29 Nov 1866-whithorn
Nothing for Jessie,George,Samuel,Annie Jane,Mary Ann,Robert,James or Maggie but....
Alexander Dalziel- born 23 Oct 1867-Glasserton
Elizabeth Stewart Dalziel-7 Dec 1869-Glasserton
John Dalziel- 18 Feb 1872-Glasserton
Still can't find an Alexander that fits anywhere- where is he hiding?
TTFN
Rose
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Pratt- Catterick/Richmond N.Yorks & Wilsden/Halifax West Yorks Maylor- Preston/ Poulton Le Fylde Whitaker- Halifax Dixon- London & Yorkshire Booth-Middleton,Oldham,Royton,Lancs Boyling-Oldham,Royton & Shropshire Harris- Bradford, Prestwich Manchester SMITH!! Kirkcaldy, Manchester Sturgess- Preston Candover, Hampshire & London Nixon- London Walters- London & Hampshire Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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bramwellanne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
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Good evening
The family mentioned by Rose are my husbands family and we are currently researching them.
Can I first of all say a big thanks to Rose as we have gained information that we did not have.
The Samual Dalziel and Elizabeth mentioned in your 1851 census records are my husbands ggg grandparents. My mother in Law Margeret Elizabeth Dalziel b 1923 is a direct decendant of this couple through their son Andrew b abt 1845 in Whithorn. This is the Andrew in the 1851 census that is down as a 7 yr old.
Any contact will be appreciated.
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woodydog
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 389
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Glad to have been of help.
Hopefully Nathan will contact you and you can both build each others trees. All the documents that I traced via Scotlands people should still be in my viewed file so send me a PM with your email if you'd like any sending to you (I'll have to work out how first so bear with me!)
All the best
Rose
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Pratt- Catterick/Richmond N.Yorks & Wilsden/Halifax West Yorks Maylor- Preston/ Poulton Le Fylde Whitaker- Halifax Dixon- London & Yorkshire Booth-Middleton,Oldham,Royton,Lancs Boyling-Oldham,Royton & Shropshire Harris- Bradford, Prestwich Manchester SMITH!! Kirkcaldy, Manchester Sturgess- Preston Candover, Hampshire & London Nixon- London Walters- London & Hampshire Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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tonderghiebob
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
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My wife Bramwellanne left messages on this site about my family below. I am leaving this information on this site as I tried to email Nathan but had no responce and hope he sees this. If anyoneelse can link in I would love to hear from you
Descendants of Samuel Dalziel
Generation No. 1
1. SAMUEL1 DALZIEL was born Abt. 1817. He married
ELIZABETH RICHARDSON. She was born Abt. 1821.
Children of SAMUEL DALZIEL and ELIZABETH RICHARDSON
2 .i ANDREW2 DALZIEL, b. Abt. 1845, Whithorn
Wigtownshire Scotland; d. 20 Aug 1922.
ii. ELIZABETH DALZIEL, b. Apr 1848.
iii. JANE JOHNSTON RICHARDSON DALZIEL,
b. 11 Oct 1856, Whithorn Wigtownshire
Scotland.
iv. GRACE HANNAH DALZIEL, b. 07 Mar
1861, Whithorn Wigtownshire Scotland.
v. JOHN HANNAH DALZIEL, b. 22 Jan 1859,
Whithorn Wigtownshire Scotland.
Generation No. 2
2. ANDREW2 DALZIEL (SAMUEL1) was born Abt. 1845 in Whithorn Wigtownshire Scotland, and died 20 Aug 1922. He married GEORGINIA MILBY 29 Nov 1866 in Whithorn Wigtownshire Scotland, daughter of JOHN MILBY and ISABELLA DINNEL.
Children of ANDREW DALZIEL and GEORGINIA MILBY are:
3. i. JANET3 DALZIEL, b. 1866, Whithorn
Wigtownshire Scotland; d. 16 Mar 1936.
ii. ALEXANDER DALZIEL, b. 1868,
Glasserton Wigtownshire Scotland.
4. iii. ELIZABETH STEWART DALZIEL, b. 07 Dec
1869, Glasserton Wigtownshire Scotland;
d. 24 Apr 1942.
iv. JOHN DALZIEL, b. 1872, Glasserton
Wigtownshire Scotland.
v. ISABELLA DINNEL DALZIEL, b. 05 May
1874, Glasserton Wigtownshire Scotland.
vi. GRACE DALZIEL, b. 1877, Glasserton
Wigtownshire Scotland.
vii. GEORGE DALZIEL, b. 1878, Glasserton
Wigtownshire Scotland;
d. 03 Dec 1917, Cambrai Nord
France; m. SOPHIA.
viii. SAMUEL DALZIEL, b. 1880, Glasserton
Wigtownshire Scotland.
5. ix. MARY ANN DALZIEL, b. 1884; d. 05 Sep
1945.
Generation No. 3
3. JANET3 DALZIEL (ANDREW2, SAMUEL1) was born 1866 in Whithorn Wigtownshire Scotland, and died 16 Mar 1936. She married JAMES STEWART.
Children of JANET DALZIEL and JAMES STEWART are:
i. JESSIE M D4 STEWART, b. 1901; d. 06
Nov 1949.
ii. ROBERT STEWART, b. 1908; d. 16 Jun
1965.
4. ELIZABETH STEWART3 DALZIEL (ANDREW2, SAMUEL1) was born 07 Dec 1869 in Glasserton Wigtownshire Scotland, and died 24 Apr 1942. She married GEORGE MILBY GIBSON.
Children of ELIZABETH DALZIEL and GEORGE GIBSON are:
6. i. ALEXANDER4 DALZIEL, b. Jan 1888;
d. 28 Jan 1964, Stranraer Hospital
Wigtownshire Scotland.
ii. MADGE GIBSON.
iii. JOHN MILBY GIBSON, b. 1901; d. 1918.
iv. ANTHONY GIBSON, b. 1899;
d. 07 Dec 1963.
5. MARY ANN3 DALZIEL (ANDREW2, SAMUEL1) was born 1884, and died 05 Sep 1945. She married WILLIAM RODGER, son of WILLIAM RODGER.
Children of MARY DALZIEL and WILLIAM RODGER are:
i. ANDREW DALZIEL4 RODGER, b. 1908;
d. 1908.
7. ii. JOHN (JACK) RODGER, b. 1915;
d. 28 Oct 1943,
Naples Italy.
And there is more down to current date.
Regards
Robert James Ambrose
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woodydog
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 389
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Hello Robert & Anne,
So far I've downloaded Samuels death reg & just need to turn it into a j-peg to send to you, hopefully today! Nathan was right about Alexander/Andrew'sparents dying within hours of each other (which I didn't notice until today!!!) only difference is they are definitely Samuel & Elizabeth NOT Alexander & Janet. Samuel died at 3.45 am & Elizabeth died at 6.15am the same day (it's on the same reg page !!!!!)
You can have a search through the 1851 census for yourself online for free at http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/historicalindexes/census.aspx#search hopefully you'll find more family that tie in.
For now I'll get off & will send you the death reg doc shortly.............
Rose
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Pratt- Catterick/Richmond N.Yorks & Wilsden/Halifax West Yorks Maylor- Preston/ Poulton Le Fylde Whitaker- Halifax Dixon- London & Yorkshire Booth-Middleton,Oldham,Royton,Lancs Boyling-Oldham,Royton & Shropshire Harris- Bradford, Prestwich Manchester SMITH!! Kirkcaldy, Manchester Sturgess- Preston Candover, Hampshire & London Nixon- London Walters- London & Hampshire Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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