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WHO IS HANNAH CRESSWELL'S FATHER?
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| Joseph |
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Author
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Topic: CRESSWELL look up please (Read 11975 times)
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marp
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 137
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Just to add to the general nature of the discussion regarding the elusive Cresswells, my GG- grandfather Joseph Cresswell was born about 1821 in Denby. I have never been able to discover who his parents were although I have tracked him through his marriage on 7 March 1852 in Codnor & Loscoe to Sarah Brightmore. On his wedding certificate he states his father was Joseph Brentnale.
His son Joseph was born in 1848 (mother unknown) in Ripley and married a Sarah Ann Hall on 23 March 1873 in Ripley. Joseph was widowed and then married Harriet Whysall (daughter of Abraham and Ann Whysall) on 28 April 1881 in Ripley parish church.
All in all, I have found researching the Cresswells to be a very long and difficult process!
marp
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 7139
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Hello Marp
In 1841 Joseph c1821 was living with Francis /Mary Cresswell in Denby -possibly these were his Grandparents ?
Maybe Joseph was illegit and his father was Joseph Brentnall?
Marriage Pallots 1791 Denby
Francis Cresswell Mary Horsley
I have sent you images -but put parents instead of G Parents on Francis/Mary images
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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John Whysall
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 74
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Yes, think I have her.
I am working from a scratch file (the details will have to wait a return to London, and more time). I have Harriet Whysall, born 8 June 1851, Ripley, Derbyshire, daughter of Abraham and Ann. Christening 24 Oct 1852.
Greetings from a bright sunny morning in San Francisco! Keep grafting there, Marp: it only gets tougher.
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In Derbyshire: Whysall and their distaffs. In Norfolk and Cambs, Piggott/Pigot and their distaffs. In Ulster and SW Scotland, Hendry, Maud and their links. Census information may be Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk. |
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marp
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 137
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Greetings from Australia! Thanks for the information Suz and John Whysall. I keep adding small pieces of information to the Cresswell puzzle. However, progress is usually one step forward and several large meanderings as I grapple with the next question.
Yes, I agree Joseph Cresswell born ca. 1821 in Denby (whose father was Joseph Brentnale) was probably illegitimate. I have been through Denby parish register and there is no record of him there. I found the household of Francis and Mary Cresswell in the 1841 census for Denby and have considered they might be his grandparents. A minute piece of rather speculative evidence to support this is that his second son born in Kilburn was named Francis.
cheers, marp
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Beverley Nicholson
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 71
...for God, for country, and for YALE
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Hello everyone,
So, based on this new information, am I any closer to confirmation as to who Hannah Cresswell's father was- Joseph or James?
Bev in Rhode Island
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NICHOLSON- Cheshire England and Dundee, Scotland. Also Wright, Marlor, Redman, France, Walters, Crresswell, Stephenson, Crossland, Watson- ENGLAND Crammond, Keith, Crighton, Haggart, Mill, McKenzie, Crocat, Farquharson, Kea - SCOTLAND Derrigg, Moran- IRELAND SPECIAL THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS HELPED ME RESEARCH!!  |
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John Whysall
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 74
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I have been mitching for the last few weeks, and need to catch up with the rest of the class. To get myself orientated, I attach a summary of the main points. Any crying errors or omissions, please correct and help me.
1a. Bev originally gave us a line of descent. This now seems to be Marp’s line and we seem to have have two separate threads. Since my surname crops up in both, I’m not giving up yet.
1b. We start with a bit of Regency hanky-panky, somewhat more advanced than would have been acceptable to the late Georgette Heyer. This amounts to the relationship between Joseph Brentnale and an assumed Ms Cresswell.
1c. There is a possible suspect here, if we stay in the Denby area: Joseph Brentnall, son of Joseph Brentnall and Ann [Palmer], christened at Denby on 4 September 1799. That might leave us looking for the unfortunate, betrayed Ms Cresswell. There is, incidentally, no male Brentnall married at Denby in a suitable timescale.
1d. Their natural child is Joseph Cresswell, born about 1821.
1e. Then we are looking for the next generation.
• There is the christening at Ripley, 11 January 1846, of the son of Joseph and Mary Ann Cresswell.
• There is another Joseph Cresswell, parents Joseph and Ellen, christened at Denby on 23 May 1848.
• There is a third (and triplicated in familysearch.org with incorrect dates) Joseph Cresswell, parents George and Sarah, christened at Denby on 6 August 1848.
1f. The records for Ripley and Denby seem to be complete and pretty reliable. FreeBMD throws up a handful of Joseph Cresswells born in Derbyshire in that timeframe:
• Mar 1845: Chesterfield (vol. 19, page 459)
• Jun 1845: Belper (19, 454)
• Sep 1845: Basford (15, 435)
• Mar 1846: Belper (19, 467)
• Jun 1847: Basford (15, 45[79]): I recall offering a “postem” on this entry, suggesting—as I recall—that 79 was the correct page number.
• Jun 1848: Belper (19, 470)
• Mar 1849: Belper (19, 4__)
• Dec 1849: Belper (19, 389)
1g. However, Marp says that her Joseph was born in 1848 (mother unknown) in Ripley and married a Sarah Ann Hall on 23 March 1873 in Ripley. Joseph was widowed and then married Harriet Whysall (daughter of Abraham and Ann Whysall) on 28 April 1881 in Ripley parish church.
1h. Joseph Cresswell marries Sarah Brightmore, daughter of Charles Brightmore, at Codnor-and-Loscoe on 7 March 1852. The register helpfully adds that the groom was 30 and the bride 28.
2a. Things got complicated when Bev accepted the 1861 Census to suggest another descent:
• James Cresswell, aged 46, brickmaker, is registered as living at Ripley.
• His wife is Sarah, aged 47.
• They have three children:
• James, aged 15, coalminer; Francis, aged 11, coalminer; and Hannah, aged 9.
2b. This seems to be the Hannah Cresswell whose birth is registered in the Belper District (vol 7b page 311), for the second (June) quarter of 1852. We believe there to be at least two siblings: James (born about 1846) and Francis (born about 1850)
2c. I have unresolved problems with that because of the link to the Whysall family in Aston (see the obituary in Hannah's prayer-book). I am struggling to see the link through to Mary Cresswell, born 1 June 1844, in my direct line. Obviously I was up a gum-tree here.
2d. We have a christening of a James Cresswell, son of Francis Cresswell and Mary, at Denby on 21 April 1816 (and notice the replication of names between the generations). Since the 1861 Census was taken on 7 April, it is possible that James would just be 46 on that day.
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In Derbyshire: Whysall and their distaffs. In Norfolk and Cambs, Piggott/Pigot and their distaffs. In Ulster and SW Scotland, Hendry, Maud and their links. Census information may be Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk. |
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marp
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 137
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Hi everyone, I have had a minor triumph of sorts which I would like to share with you. I have managed to sort out some things. Joseph Cresswell born about 1821 in Denby was married twice. Here is the story so far:
1) Joseph Cresswell (collier) married Ellen (or Eleanor) Hunt on 29 December 12 1845 in Duffield. I obtained the information from Duffield parish register. Both were resident at Bar-gate at the time. His father was Joseph Brentnall occupation farmer, and her father was Joseph Hunt occupation collier. The witnesses were Francis Cresswell and Ann Hardy.
2) The son of Joseph Cresswell and Ellen Hunt (also called Joseph Cresswell) was baptised on 23 May 1848 at Denby parish church
3) Ellen Creswell died in the March quarter of 1849.
4) The 1851 census for Codnor saw Joseph Cresswell age 28 a widower, occupation coal miner living alone. H0107/2125/450 p, 36
5) The 1851 census for Ripley H0107/21/45/81/11 saw his son Joseph living with his maternal grandparents Joseph Hunt and Jane Wood and their family at Street Lane.
Joseph Hunt head age 48 coal miner born Denby
Jane wife age 48 born Denby
Theodoria Hunt daughter age 17 dressmaker born Ripley
Joseph Hunt son age 15 coal miner born Ripley
William Hunt age 13 son coal miner born Ripley
Arthur son age 11 scholar born Ripley
Robert son age 9 scholar born Ripley
Joseph Cresswell nurse child age 3 (child at nurse) born Ripley
6) Joseph Cresswell age 30 occupation collier, married Sarah Brightmore age 28 on 7 March 1852 at Codnor & Loscoe parish church. On the marriage certificate his father is Joseph Brentnale occupation collier and her father is Charles Brightmore occupation miner.
7) In 1861 Ripley census, RG9/2508/71/24 location The Fields, Kilburn there is Joseph Cresswell head of household, aged 40, born Denby. Occupation coal miner. Wife Sarah Cresswell aged 38 born Ripley. Son Joseph Cresswell aged 13 born Ripley and daughter Mary Cresswell aged 7 born Codnor, Derbyshire.
Of course there is still the 1841 census for Denby to be sorted out which lists Francis Cresswell age 70 ag. lab. , Mary Cresswell age 65 wife , James Cresswell age 25 coal miner, Joseph Cresswell age 19 coal miner H0107-0188 Folio 12/35 p. 2
My own hunch is that Francis Cresswell and Mary Horsley of the 1841 Denby census were Joseph Cresswell's grandparents. Francis was a witness at his first wedding, and Joseph called one of his sons (by Sarah Brightmore) Francis.
As for Joseph Brentnale (christened 4 September 1799) - I agree with John Whysall that this is the likely fellow who fathered Joseph Cresswell. However, which one of Francis Cresswell's daughters was led astray?!!
Unfortunately I did not keep track, but when I was going through the fiche for Codnor & Loscoe PR I kept coming across the name of James Cresswell. I am not sure whether or not this is the same one as the 1841 Denby census but it is worth checking.
Hope this helps! I would not have come this far without help from others.
marp
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John Whysall
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 74
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Of marginal interest to Cresswells, but related by marriage:
Hannah Cresswell's sister, Mary, married John Whysall. Their son, Thomas, married Sarah Mellars. Sarah Mellars' mother was Elizabeth Kirkby.
Which is the link to http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=202408.new#new
As I say there, any advice and short-cuts very welcome.
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In Derbyshire: Whysall and their distaffs. In Norfolk and Cambs, Piggott/Pigot and their distaffs. In Ulster and SW Scotland, Hendry, Maud and their links. Census information may be Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk. |
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Beverley Nicholson
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 71
...for God, for country, and for YALE
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Hello everyone- just a quick note to tell you I am coming to the UK for a short visit at the end of July 2007. I am visiting relatives in the Chesterfield area and then will be on my way to St Petersburg with my daughter, Sarah. We are celebrating her graduation with a Juris Doctor degree from Georgetown University Law Center.
Bev
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NICHOLSON- Cheshire England and Dundee, Scotland. Also Wright, Marlor, Redman, France, Walters, Crresswell, Stephenson, Crossland, Watson- ENGLAND Crammond, Keith, Crighton, Haggart, Mill, McKenzie, Crocat, Farquharson, Kea - SCOTLAND Derrigg, Moran- IRELAND SPECIAL THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS HELPED ME RESEARCH!! |
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Beverley Nicholson
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 71
...for God, for country, and for YALE
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PS Feel free to email me - bconde@cox.net if you would like any photos or would like to meet with me in England.
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NICHOLSON- Cheshire England and Dundee, Scotland. Also Wright, Marlor, Redman, France, Walters, Crresswell, Stephenson, Crossland, Watson- ENGLAND Crammond, Keith, Crighton, Haggart, Mill, McKenzie, Crocat, Farquharson, Kea - SCOTLAND Derrigg, Moran- IRELAND SPECIAL THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS HELPED ME RESEARCH!! |
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Beverley Nicholson
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 71
...for God, for country, and for YALE
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[b][/b][flash=200,200][/flash] PLEASE NOTE THAT MY NEW EMAIL ADDRESS IS
BNC8201@GMAIL.COM
THIS IS AS OF TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 2007
THANKS,
BEV
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NICHOLSON- Cheshire England and Dundee, Scotland. Also Wright, Marlor, Redman, France, Walters, Crresswell, Stephenson, Crossland, Watson- ENGLAND Crammond, Keith, Crighton, Haggart, Mill, McKenzie, Crocat, Farquharson, Kea - SCOTLAND Derrigg, Moran- IRELAND SPECIAL THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS HELPED ME RESEARCH!! |
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