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Topic: 1851 and 1861 look up please (Read 432 times)
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treefreak
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1604
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Hi All
Would be really grateful if someone could look for Daniel McCann who was born about 1850 in Kilbirnie, Ayreshire (spelling as per 1881 census).
Trying to locate who his parents were.
Many many thanks
Sandra 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk Brown - Renfrewshire, McCann - Ayreshire and Ireland, Fellows - Bilston and Willenhall, Morris - Tipton, Moody - Coseley/Dudley, Arnold - Tipton, Knowles - Willenhall, Banks - Willenhall, Martin - Tipton, Wolverson - Willenhall  |
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jonn
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Hello Sandra,
On the 1861 census index for Kilbirnie, Ayrshire, there is a Mccann, family as below.
Patrick aged 45y, born Ireland,
Jane aged 40y, born Ireland,
Mary A aged 15y, born Airdrie,
Rosa aged 13y, born Kilbirnie,
Daniel aged 11y, born Kilbirnie,
Margaret aged 7y, born Kilbirnie,
John aged 5y, born Kilbirnie,
James A aged 5y, born Kilbirnie.
This Daniel is the only McCann, in Ayrshire, born within the timeframe you quoted.
The mother's maiden name is Murphy, the two boy's aged 5y were born in 1855, so if you get their birth certificate's from Scotlandspeople Site, they will give details of other children, and where parent's were married.
Yours Sincerely,
Jonn.
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treefreak
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1604
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Jonn you are an absolute in my book!!
Thank you so much, I will look into this a little further.
Daniel has a daughter called Jane so he may have named her after his mother.
THANK YOU so much for your time and kindness.
Sandra 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk Brown - Renfrewshire, McCann - Ayreshire and Ireland, Fellows - Bilston and Willenhall, Morris - Tipton, Moody - Coseley/Dudley, Arnold - Tipton, Knowles - Willenhall, Banks - Willenhall, Martin - Tipton, Wolverson - Willenhall |
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treefreak
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Hi again Jonn
I went onto Scotlands People and found Daniel's marriage certificate.
You are spot on, that is definately the family in 1861. Could you possibly let me have the road name and reference?
I did a search for James and John aged 5 births but they were from completely different families.
THANK YOU 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk Brown - Renfrewshire, McCann - Ayreshire and Ireland, Fellows - Bilston and Willenhall, Morris - Tipton, Moody - Coseley/Dudley, Arnold - Tipton, Knowles - Willenhall, Banks - Willenhall, Martin - Tipton, Wolverson - Willenhall |
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jonn
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Hello Sandra,
The census data that I gave you was from the cd, for Ayrshire, it is only the index of that census, it does not give address, the reference number is 1861/596/596/7/8/19. The two boys John, and James A. were twins, is that the one's you got.
Did your Daniel McCann, get married in 1871, in Kilbirnie, and did it state his parent's were Patrick, and Jane Murphy. if so then they were the parent's of John, and James A.
Yours Sincerely,
Jonn.
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treefreak
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1604
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Thank you so much for your help
I looked for John and James but it wasn't coming up with Patrick and Jane, it was 2 different parents. I found Daniel's marriage certificate and the parents were Patrick and Jane.
THANK YOU
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk Brown - Renfrewshire, McCann - Ayreshire and Ireland, Fellows - Bilston and Willenhall, Morris - Tipton, Moody - Coseley/Dudley, Arnold - Tipton, Knowles - Willenhall, Banks - Willenhall, Martin - Tipton, Wolverson - Willenhall |
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JAP
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Hello Sandra,
I replied to your post on the General Ireland board but I've now looked at your previous posts. I see that you presumably found the names of Patrick MCCANN and Jane MURPHY from the marriage certificate (from SP) of their son Daniel MCCANN in 1871 in Kilbirnie, Ayrshire; and that you have approximate dates and birthplaces of Patrick and Jane from information from the 1861 Kilbirnie census index provided on the Ayrshire board.
Have you noted the following in the IGI (might or might not be your Patrick and Jane but it seems quite likely):
*A Patrick MCCANN m a Jane MURPHY, Apr 1844, New Monkland, Lanarkshire
In Dalry, Ayrshire (extracted from the Statutory Register) the IGI has:
*John MCCANN, b 11 Dec 1855, parents Patrick MCCANN and Jane MURPHY
*James MCCANN, b 7 Mar 1858, parents Patrick MCCANN and Jane MURPHY
From the 1861 census information, Mary A aged 15 was b Airdrie (in New Monkland) so the 1844 New Monkland marriage looks likely. The next child Rosa, aged 13, is listed as born Kilbirnie so this gives you a fairly restricted date for the move of the family from New Monkland, Lanarkshire to Ayrshire.
I am wondering whether the age of James on the 1861 census might be a misreading of 3 as 5? That would fit with the IGI birth entries - and Dalry is not all that far from Kilbirnie.
It might well be worth getting from ScotlandsPeople the 1855 birth cert for John in Dalry because birth certs in 1855 (first year of statutory registration) were particularly informative. Of course, as this John was born in December, he might not have been registered until 1856 - so might show as 1856 in the index and the cert might not have all the wonderful 1855 information.
Incidentally, I note that there is also in the IGI another John MCCANN b in 1855 in Ayrshire - John b Kilbirnie on 21 Dec but he has different parents, James MCCANN and Agness MUIR. And, in 1858, two other James MCCANNs are listed as born in Ayrshire but they have different parents - one also b Dalry and one b Kilbirnie!
It would also be worth looking up later censuses for Patrick and Jane (if they survived) - 1871, 1881, 1891, and 1901 censuses are on SP - in case there is a better birthplace than just 'Ireland'.
Also their death certificates which will list the name and occupation of father, and name and maiden surname of mother (if known). Remember, women are indexed under both married surname and maiden surname (if known) on SP. So you can search for a Jane MCCANN and a Jane MURPHY (if you don't find her, you might need to use wildcards just in case she's listed as Jean or Jeanie etc; and wildcards might also be needed for MCCANN if you don't find it indexed thus). If you find entries in the same year and place for both names for a person of the right age (though note that there was a period when age at death was not indexed), you can be fairly confident you have the right person.
Good luck,
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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treefreak
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1604
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Morning Jap
Thank you for your info.
Since retrieving the marriage details for Daniel and Jane I have been on a roll (with help from a wonderful person).
John McCann's birth details state that his father Patrick was born in Killevey? County Armagh and Jane Murphy was born in Ballinascreen? County Derry.
Thank you for your interest in this matter.
Sandra
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk Brown - Renfrewshire, McCann - Ayreshire and Ireland, Fellows - Bilston and Willenhall, Morris - Tipton, Moody - Coseley/Dudley, Arnold - Tipton, Knowles - Willenhall, Banks - Willenhall, Martin - Tipton, Wolverson - Willenhall |
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bunty2
RootsChat Pioneer
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Sandra
I am from this family also thru Patrick Jane Murphy McCann's
son John McCann .
Would love to compare notes about the fam.
All the best Lisa
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treefreak
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1604
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This is wonderful news!!
Will PM you.
Sandra
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk Brown - Renfrewshire, McCann - Ayreshire and Ireland, Fellows - Bilston and Willenhall, Morris - Tipton, Moody - Coseley/Dudley, Arnold - Tipton, Knowles - Willenhall, Banks - Willenhall, Martin - Tipton, Wolverson - Willenhall |
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
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Hello Sandra,
Could I make a plaintive little plea - to everybody. It is always a good idea, when you've made a request on RC and then find out the answer to your question (or find further information) to post again on your query threads so that other RootsChatters don't spend their time and effort searching out information which you already have 
Leaving that aside, are you aware of the SeanRuad site where you can search for townlands? It is at:
http://www.seanruad.com/
There is no exact match for Killevey but a search for all townlands in Armagh beginning with 'Kil' might help. Similarly a search for all townlands in Derry beginning with 'Ball' (there are quite a number of these) might give some ideas - especially if the writing on the certificate is hard to decipher (and if the name is just the Registrar's best attempt at rendering a placename told to him in an unfamiliar accent). Perhaps Ballynease-strain might be a possibility?
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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treefreak
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1604
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Thank you Jap
In future I will try and get all the information before I post, but being very new to tracing Scottish and Irish ancestors you have to appreciate that this is a learning curve for me 
If I could have deleted my posts so as to not annoy you...I would.
Sincerely
Sandra
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk Brown - Renfrewshire, McCann - Ayreshire and Ireland, Fellows - Bilston and Willenhall, Morris - Tipton, Moody - Coseley/Dudley, Arnold - Tipton, Knowles - Willenhall, Banks - Willenhall, Martin - Tipton, Wolverson - Willenhall |
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treefreak
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Posts: 1604
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Please note that this original thread was a completely different request from the other one with the same family on it.
That other thread is asking how to trace Irish marriages/blood now that I have discovered where my ancestors are from.
Regards
Sandra
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk Brown - Renfrewshire, McCann - Ayreshire and Ireland, Fellows - Bilston and Willenhall, Morris - Tipton, Moody - Coseley/Dudley, Arnold - Tipton, Knowles - Willenhall, Banks - Willenhall, Martin - Tipton, Wolverson - Willenhall |
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