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Topic: Unnamed,unbaptised boy enumerated in 1851 census - updated (Read 714 times)
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kenjo
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Meece,
I can't say, I have ever seen that before 
kenjo
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kenjo
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I bit off the track here,
but I have been reading about, concealed pregnancies, and murdered babies.
I was very surprised to read that there wasn't much difference, in punishment, whether they were murderers or not. usually a slap on the wrist and 9 months in jail!!!! but these little unwanted babies were not named, not for some time.
I think it is great, they were given a 2nd chance.(the mother) (considering they were children themselves, in most cases)
but it was not what I was expecting......considering over the border, convicts were getting 7yrs for minor offenses.
So the courts, were, not, such monstrous places, after all.
kenjo
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ibi
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Ysabeau
Not unusual in 1851 and 1841 in particular when there wasn't any pressure to carry out a civil registration of the birth. Still not that unusual in later censuses, especially in remoter areas where it could take some effort to get in to visit the registrar.
What is unusual is the age. In other words a few days, or a few months at most I've seen, but never 1 year. Is it definitely a "1" on its own, and not "1d" or "1m"?
If it was 1 year, then how did they refer to the child in the household from day to day? 
ibi
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JAP
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Hi Ysabeau,
From what you say, it doesn't necessarily indicate that the poor little chap didn't have a name - just that he hadn't been baptized (and, of course, this was before statutory registration).
Might this be nothing more than a reflection of unbending religious beliefs on the part of the enumerator!?
That is, that the enumerator wasn't about to enter the name of poor Bubby until and unless Bubby's name was formally given and blessed at what the enumerator regarded as a proper and essential baptismal ceremony ...
Just an idea (if, indeed, Bubby was actually 1 year old).
JAP
Kenjo, don't you believe it - they were monstrous. This is stepping right into the dark side but I know someone whose Scots ancestry includes a little girl who gave birth to a child by her widowed father; nothing happened to him - she was imprisoned and transported.
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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ysabeau
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The next links in the mitochondrial DNA chain.....
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Ysabeau What is unusual is the age. In other words a few days, or a few months at most I've seen, but never 1 year. Is it definitely a "1" on its own, and not "1d" or "1m"? If it was 1 year, then how did they refer to the child in the household from day to day? ibi
Good morning ibi
Definitely 1 on its own......if I knew how, I would "post" the relevant census entry
Ysabeau
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Aberdeenshire : Anderson + Baxter + Bruce + Dickson + Emslie + Hendry + Hunter + Laing + Lawson + Maitland + Reid + Robb + Walker + Watt + Williams Banffshire/Morayshire : Farquharson + Gordon + Grant + Lamb + Lawson + Stewart/Stuart www.kildrummyfamilies.co.ukAny census information included in this post is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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JAP
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Hi Ysabeau,
Here is a thread about adding images to posts:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,12753.0.html
And a post on the Technical Help board in the Common Room should get you lots of assistance.
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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kenjo
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ysabeau,
What happened to this child when he grew up?
Have you been able to trace him?
Jo
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kenjo
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Hey! At least we can read it. 
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JAP
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Hi Ysabeau,
ENUMERATOR
Do you have the name of the enumerator (from the census film)?
Ministers of the Established Presbyterian Church of Scotland are listed in the Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae - depending on where you live this might be available in a reference library. Or someone might do a lookup? Part of the Fasti (not I fear the parish where you are searching) is online at:
http://www.dwalker.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Map.htm
The suggestion that the vicar was the enumerator would fit my hypothesis of a stern and religious enumerator  And, given the various illegitimate children, perhaps he was expressing general disapproval in the charitable(!) fashion of clergy of the time.
*William REID - can't find him
*George MASSON bap 1847, Tarland and Migvie, Aberdeen, parents Charles MASSON and Catherine WILLIAM
*Margaret BRUCE b 1850, Leochel-Cushnie, parents William BRUCE and Catherine WILLIAM
SQUIGGLE
Re the squiggle (scoring out of the word after Daur?), I guess the real question is what has been scored through.
Looking at the IGI, am I right in thinking that the following are relevant:
Catherine WILLIAM, b 13 Apr, bap 18 Apr 1824, Leochel-Cuchnie Aberdeen, parents Peter WILLIAM and Elizabeth DICKISON (same parents - with Elizabeth's name variously spelled - had in Leochel-Cushnie, Janet 1803, George 1806, Elizabeth 1808, Hellen 1811, Jean 1814, Anne 1817 and Mary 1819.
That Mary (1819) doesn't fit the age (26 - same as Catherine) of the census Mary - but ages are notoriously unreliable. I wondered if it might be Daughter in Law but there would be no reason to score through that.
Looking carefully, I am sure it is Pauper. And notice that 'Pauper' has been scored through after 'Wid' in the entry for Elizabeth.
Regards,
JAP
PS: It will be interesting to know what you find in 1861.
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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GEN10
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Hya I think it says Marr as in married then scored through. Looking at census records I have and the way the letters were scribed it definatley starts with an "M"
GEN10
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FIFE NAMES:BELL, BEVERIDGE, MCNEILL, HENDERSON, HYND, MITCHEL, WEBSTER.
MIDLOTHIAN NAMES: BLAIR, CROMBIE, FAIRNIE, GREENLEES, LATTA, PEAT, SNEDDON/SNADDON.
ANGUS: BEAN, COWIE, GOWANS, MYLES, SKIRLING
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1851.jpg