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Topic: Parish Records Check please (still needed) (Read 616 times)
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janan
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5851
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Hi
Anyone going to the Derbyshire RO who would be able to check these 2 things for me please? I need the records clarified
Wirksworth
Burial John Alsop May 24th 1807
- need mother's name checked please, will be either Ann or Hannah
Ashover
Marriage William Key to Ann Noon 24th Oct 1831
- need fathers names please.
Thanks in anticipation
Cheers Jan 
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ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.ukbedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell buckinghamshire- pain cambridgeshire- bird, carver hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey derbyshire- allsop, noon devon - griffin, love, rapsey dorset- rendall, gale somerset- rendall, churchill surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge |
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sunflower
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1620
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Hi Jan
Have you tried this site ?
http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/
Sunflower
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Derby- Bamford,Slater,Marriott,Lee,Fox,Hopkinson,Hawksley, Furniss, Froggatt, Stodd. Notts - Breeding, Lacey Marriott ,Kershaw,Chambers,Geeson,Mitchell,Watts,Peel,Potts,Slack,Robinson, Cooper Yorkshire - Potts, Bell, Derbyshire, Kershaw Worcestershire - Dyson, Summers, Dearn, Jones Warwickshire - Russon Leicestershire - Stodd, Sarson, Berridge, Watts, Bradshaw. Middlesex / Surrey - Markham, Pearce, Kalaher, Barrett This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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sunflower
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1620
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Hi again
Also this one
http://www.ashover.com/
Sunflower
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Derby- Bamford,Slater,Marriott,Lee,Fox,Hopkinson,Hawksley, Furniss, Froggatt, Stodd. Notts - Breeding, Lacey Marriott ,Kershaw,Chambers,Geeson,Mitchell,Watts,Peel,Potts,Slack,Robinson, Cooper Yorkshire - Potts, Bell, Derbyshire, Kershaw Worcestershire - Dyson, Summers, Dearn, Jones Warwickshire - Russon Leicestershire - Stodd, Sarson, Berridge, Watts, Bradshaw. Middlesex / Surrey - Markham, Pearce, Kalaher, Barrett This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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janan
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5851
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Hi Sunflower
Yes thanks, John Palmer's site is fantastic  but has led to the confusion over the two Wirksworth entries.
For the marriage John gives Thomas ?Horn, rather than Noon, as Ann's father, the IGI doesn't give her father at all  - I'm as sure as I can be that it is my lady but want it double checked. I tried emailing John Palmer twice but got no reply, I guess he must be inundated.
Re the death John P gives his father as Hannah, the IGI gives Ann - I think the latter must be right but again wanted it double checked.
I had already been to the Ashover site thanks but sadly the marriage isn't there - only have an IGI entry which doesn't give fathers' names. Once again I'm hoping for Thomas Noon.
Thank you for your interest once more 
Regards Jan
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ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.ukbedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell buckinghamshire- pain cambridgeshire- bird, carver hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey derbyshire- allsop, noon devon - griffin, love, rapsey dorset- rendall, gale somerset- rendall, churchill surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge |
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spendlove
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 507
I've not edited my PROFILE yet
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Hi,
Re Marriage of Joseph Griffin to Ann Kay (Key) 6.5.1839. If you get the marriage
on the IGI and then click on the name of Ann Kay (Key) you will see her Father is
shown as Thomas Noon.
The Wirksworth transcriber was obviously not sure, think safe to take Noon as correct.
Hannah and Ann are often confused, we have never been too good at pronounsing
our H's in this area, except when we are attempting to speak !posh! then we put
the H's in the wrong place as in Hannable should be Annable. However in this instance
there are two separate families one with a Hannah and the other Ann both married
to a Wandall
On IGI John Alsop born 13.5.1797 Bpt. 13.9.1797 died 24.5.1807 son of
Ann and Wandall Alsop.
If you look at the Wirksworth marriages there ( I think) is only one marriage of
a Wandall Alsop to a Hannah i.e. marriage 15.4.1784 to Hannah Buxton.
There is a Marriage Wandall Alsop to Ann Pearson 21.4. 1794
Hannah wife of Wandall is buried 14.3.1799
but Hannah daughter of Wandall and Ann is not born until 17.6.1799 Bpt. 10.7.1799.
A quick way to take a look at the births is:-
Get up IGI page
Under Father enter Wandall Alsop, under mother enter Ann (no last name)
In the section First Name - leave blank
In the section Last name - enter Alsop
British Isles,
In batch number enter C059491
This will show bapt. for both Ann & Hannah's Children at Wirksworth.
Compare this with marriages and deaths on Wirksworth Site and it should become
clear which is which family.
Sorry about this long explanation, but please try the above.
Spendlove.
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janan
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5851
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Hi again Spendlove
Thanks for all the time and trouble over this one - carefully crosschecking the IGI with the Parish Records on the Wirksworth site is of course the obvious thing to do  This family has been doing my head in for so long - far to many Wandells and Williams all marrying Hannahs and Ann and naming their children William, Wandell and John  - that I think I've lost my way  So thank you for putting me back on track
Cheers Jan
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ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.ukbedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell buckinghamshire- pain cambridgeshire- bird, carver hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey derbyshire- allsop, noon devon - griffin, love, rapsey dorset- rendall, gale somerset- rendall, churchill surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge |
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Gardener
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1607
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Burial John Alsop May 24th 1807
- need mother's name checked please, will be either Ann or Hannah
I think this is a tricky one and I'm not surprised you have been running in circles with it.
As I read it the information is:
IGI entry for the burial of Wandel Alsop, birth 13/5/1797; bapt 13/9/1797; bur 24/5/1807; father Wandel Alsop and mother Ann.
The Wirksworth web entries reads
bpt 13/9/1797 John Alsop (son) Wandel/Ann,dob 13/5/1797
bur 24/5/1807 John Alsop (son) Wondale/Hannah
There are also entries in both the IGI and Wirksworth for William Alsop, son of Wendal and Ann, bpt 113/9/1797; dob 13/5/1797
Were they twins?
Then, as Spendlove says, there are these entries in Wirksworth
Bur 8/8/1799 Hannah Alsop (wife) Wondale
Bpt 10/7/1799 Hannah (dau) Wandall/Ann, dob 7/6/1799
There are 3 marriages for Wendal to Ann/Hannah
1) 28/5/1761 to Hannah Smedly
2) 15/4/1784 to Hannah Buxton
3) 21/4/1794 to Ann Pearson
I wonder if Hannah Alsop who died in 1799 was Hannah Smedly, mother of Abraham born 17/11/1782 (before Wendel married Hannah Buxton) and perhaps Sarah born 14/8/1784
Another difference is that the IGI has Hannah born 17/6/1799; bpt 10/7/1799; mother Hannah
but Wirksworth has Hannah bpt 10/7/1799 mother Ann, dob 17/6/1799
My conclusions 
Wendal1 married Hannah Smedly in 1761 and had children Richard 1762, Job 1764, Wondel 1767, Elizabeth 1768,Isaac 1771, Abraham 1782 and Ellen 1784 (I think).
Wendal 2 married Hannah Buxton in 1784 and had Sarah 1784 (or else this entry should be swapped with Ellen above) then they had a pile of children including twins Ann and Wandel 13/3/1794.
Wendal 3 married Ann Pearson 21/4/1794 which is only 3 weeks after the twins were born so I don't see think that this can be also Wendal 2.
There don't seem to be any more children to Wendal 2 and Hannah after this and the Hannah who dies in 1799 may be this one but could equally be the wife of Wendal 1 and the spelling of his name in the entry (Wondale) supports this.
If you look at Inces pedigrees on the Wirksworth pages, no 024b, then there is some help from the family given there.
Richard Alsop (02) and Hannah Webster(03) have a son Wandell (08) who marries Hannah Smedley (09). This looks to be the Wendell bpt 1736, father Richrd. This is Wendal 1.
Wandell(08) and Hannah Smedley (09) have a son Warndell (30) who has sons William (37) and Wandell (38)
Warndell (30) looks seems to be the Wondel born 1767. I think he is Wendal 3 who married Ann Pearson.
Richard Alsop (02)+ Hannah Webster (03) have another son William (06) who marries Hannah Webster and have a son Warndel (25) who marries Hannah Taylor (26).
There is a Wondale Alsop bpt 17/3/1756, father William. The IGI has a submitted entry for him but has his mother as Hannah Kirkland. I thought that this Wondale might be the one who married Hannah Buxton but he can't be if he married Hannah Taylor so that is a bit unclear.
So, going back to your query....I think it would certainly be agood idea to get the parish registers checked for the burial entry for John in 1807. It looks to me as though the person entering the data in the IGI has linked this burial to the birth in 1797 and just put the mother in as Ann. If the entry actually reads mother Hannah then this may even be John who was born in 1790.
I think that the Wirksworth site is based on the Parish Records but some of the IGI entries are from Bishops Transcripts. The IGI entries for both John (1797) and Hannah (1799) are referenced as BT and this may be the problem as the entries may vary a bit. I know people who cross-checked the PR and BT entries for the Marsdens around Youlgreave and there were a lot of differences!
Hope this isn't tooo confusing to read  Sorry it turned out to be novel
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 Rose (Black Country),Downs (Black Country),Wolloxall (any and all),Bark (Derbyshire),Wright (Derbyshire),Marsden (Derbyshire), Wallace (Black Country) All census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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janan
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5851
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Aaaahhhh Just pressed back arrow by mistake and when I returned to this reply box all my hard typed musings had vanished
Sorry, deep breath and start again
Hi,
Having completed the cross-checking:
Happy with the Ann Key/Kay marriage to Joseph Griffin (too much else supports this being correct anyway)
Still need the Ashover marriage checked for Ann's father - it is the only Ann Noon to Key/Kay marriage on the IGI but there may be others not on the index.
Although I am pretty sure the burial in 1807 is the John Alsop born 1797 son of Wandel3 and Ann as there is no sign of him on censuses, only a John who consistently fits the John born 1790 son of Wandel2 and Hannah. I agree jacqui and Gardener it still needs checking.
Re the broader subject of which Wandel is which:
Gratifying to see Gardener that you have come to same conclusions as me
I've seen the Ince pedigree and it actually confuses things evenmore by throwing in Hannahs Webster and Taylor - where I had Kirkland and Buxton - when I'm feeling strong enough I'll recheck all that
The whole thing is further complicated by information copied out of the family bible by my g grandfather and a family tree by my grandfather which imply that William my gg grandfather is son of Wandel son of William and Hannah Kirkland/Webster (although my grandfather has her as Hannah Smedley ) - although there is nothing else to support this
Why do I do this as a hobby
Thanks everso for your interest
Cheers Jan
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ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.ukbedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell buckinghamshire- pain cambridgeshire- bird, carver hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey derbyshire- allsop, noon devon - griffin, love, rapsey dorset- rendall, gale somerset- rendall, churchill surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge |
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janan
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5851
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Hi Sylvia
Is that checked against the original or just against the IGI entry?
Cheers and thanks for your interest once more
Jan
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ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.ukbedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell buckinghamshire- pain cambridgeshire- bird, carver hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey derbyshire- allsop, noon devon - griffin, love, rapsey dorset- rendall, gale somerset- rendall, churchill surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge |
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janan
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5851
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[quote author=maidmarianoops link=topic=93961.msg413755#msg413755 date=112927944
william key mar 24 oct 1831 ashover /w ann noon /children hannah noon b 9 jan 1827 c 20 april 1829 horsley[does this make sense]
sylvia
No
Have you actually found an entry somewhere linking my Hannah's birth with the marriage of Ann NOON to William KEY. If so great and where did you find it? If not You've made the same link I have but I need Ann's father confirmed as Thomas NOON to be sure I've got this right.
Cheers Jan
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ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.ukbedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell buckinghamshire- pain cambridgeshire- bird, carver hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey derbyshire- allsop, noon devon - griffin, love, rapsey dorset- rendall, gale somerset- rendall, churchill surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge |
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janan
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5851
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What happened to the quote
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ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.ukbedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell buckinghamshire- pain cambridgeshire- bird, carver hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey derbyshire- allsop, noon devon - griffin, love, rapsey dorset- rendall, gale somerset- rendall, churchill surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge |
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